What is a deistic atheist?

 
 
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eudemonia
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20 December 2008 08:18
 

I have arrived at the conclusion that this may be the dumbest discussion and about the most useless thread ever started and continued here.

IS is all about attention and boy is he getting it here.

 
 
sam harris is a neocon idiot
 
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sam harris is a neocon idiot
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20 December 2008 09:06
 
McCreason - 20 December 2008 01:18 PM

I have arrived at the conclusion that this may be the dumbest discussion and about the most useless thread ever started and continued here.

IS is all about attention and boy is he getting it here.

you mean ...?

 
 
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06 January 2009 01:58
 
Salt Creek - 19 December 2008 07:45 PM
Immediate Suppression - 19 December 2008 07:15 PM
goodgraydrab - 19 December 2008 05:12 PM

Perhaps IS can gleen from this that to get from Atheism to Deism or vice versa requires a conversion, not a union.

While a conversion is usually, though not always, necessary for one to become part of a religion, no conversion is necessary to have deistic beliefs.  You simply have to have deistic beliefs.

Deistic beliefs, plus a shiny coin, will buy you a brightly-colored gumball. Chew it carefully so as not to die by choking.

I would agree with your lame, predictable joke which you’ve chosen once again to bore us all with with for the four-hundredth time.  A joke is only funny once, among the same group of people.  Did nobody ever tell you that?  I’m wondering if you are also the type of person who laughs out loud at his own jokes, even before anyone else does?

 
 
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06 January 2009 02:07
 
goodgraydrab - 19 December 2008 09:08 PM
Immediate Suppression - 19 December 2008 05:45 PM
camanintx - 18 December 2008 05:45 PM
Immediate Suppression - 17 December 2008 05:09 PM

The point is to make a valid point:  That deistic atheists do exist.  And judging by the clear lack of oppostion to my ideas, I have established that it is a valid point.

Because a circle calls itself a square doesn’t prove that square circles exist, just that stupid circles do.

That is such a bad analogy that I won’t even play along with it. 

Deistic atheists probably have more in common with traditional atheists than normal atheists would like to admit.  Namely, an opposition to religion.  And I would be surprised if many deistic atheists are very open with their deistic beliefs, in terms of openly expressing them in public.  They might simply have the beliefs as sort of an internal comfort of sorts.

The analogy is perfect in regards to your thought process.

You mention above: deistic atheists, traditional atheists and normal atheists and we’re supposed to figure out what you’re talking about when you don’t even know.

I was referring to the same group when I mentioned “normal” and “traditional” atheists.

goodgraydrab - 19 December 2008 09:08 PM

While a conversion is usually, though not always, necessary for one to become part of a religion, no conversion is necessary to have deistic beliefs.  You simply have to have deistic beliefs.

Again, you’re attempting for others to pretend they think you know what you’re talking about. You can’t be atheist and simply adopt deist. You have to drop one for the other, otherwise it’s non-existent nonsense. Antireligious or Irreligious is what you’re looking for as a sub-class of deist. Your insistence just makes me think you were a poll participant.

Most deistic atheists likely are former religious people who have abandoned religion and embraced atheism.  But they likely have difficulty abandoning their deistic tendencies, for whatever reasons.  They possibly retain them as some type of internal comfort, as I mentioned above.  They have let go of the religion, but still cling to some of the deistic aspects of it.  Many deistic atheists also probably eventually become traditional atheists over time and abandon their deistic tendencies.

 
 
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goodgraydrab
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06 January 2009 07:58
 
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 07:07 AM

Most deistic atheists likely are former religious people who have abandoned religion and embraced atheism.  But they likely have difficulty abandoning their deistic tendencies, for whatever reasons.  They possibly retain them as some type of internal comfort, as I mentioned above.  They have let go of the religion, but still cling to some of the deistic aspects of it.  Many deistic atheists also probably eventually become traditional atheists over time and abandon their deistic tendencies.

Your discription, IMHNF(non-fundamentalist)O, sounds remarkably similar to a fence-teeterer, a waffler or a transsexual in the middle of sex reassignment surgery.

 
 
 
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Carstonio
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06 January 2009 11:26
 
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 07:07 AM

Most deistic atheists likely are former religious people who have abandoned religion and embraced atheism.

They and many others mistakenly believe that an atheist is someone who rejects organized religion. A better word for such a person is “areligious.” Atheism involves the rejection of all beliefs or claims about the metaphysical or supernatural. Atheism doesn’t necessarily involve the rejection of religion - an atheist might appreciate a religion that involved no metaphysical or supernatural notions at all.

[ Edited: 06 January 2009 11:32 by Carstonio]
 
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06 January 2009 11:31
 
goodgraydrab - 06 January 2009 12:58 PM
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 07:07 AM

Most deistic atheists likely are former religious people who have abandoned religion and embraced atheism.  But they likely have difficulty abandoning their deistic tendencies, for whatever reasons.  They possibly retain them as some type of internal comfort, as I mentioned above.  They have let go of the religion, but still cling to some of the deistic aspects of it.  Many deistic atheists also probably eventually become traditional atheists over time and abandon their deistic tendencies.

Your discription, IMHNF(non-fundamentalist)O, sounds remarkably similar to a fence-teeterer, a waffler or a transsexual in the middle of sex reassignment surgery.

Yeah sort of, though I don’t think those analogies are completely accurate.  Abandoning deistic beliefs you have been brought up with can be a difficult thing to do.  I know this from my own Mormon background. 

It is likely actually easier for some people to abandon religion itself, and even become anti-religious while at the same time keeping some deistic beliefs.  I doubt that most deistic atheists are very open about their deistic beliefs in public, but who in a telephone poll might be willing to be reveal them.  So they are mostly private beliefs which likely cause little harm to anyone.  That is why I am surprised there is so much resentment towards the acknowledgment of the existence of deistic atheists.

 
 
 
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Carstonio
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06 January 2009 11:41
 
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 04:31 PM

It is likely actually easier for some people to abandon religion itself, and even become anti-religious while at the same time keeping some deistic beliefs.  I doubt that most deistic atheists are very open about their deistic beliefs in public, but who in a telephone poll might be willing to be reveal them.  So they are mostly private beliefs which likely cause little harm to anyone.  That is why I am surprised there is so much resentment towards the acknowledgment of the existence of deistic atheists.

Deism is not a religion in the same way as theism. It’s really a metaphysical belief without a religion, whereas something like Confucianism might be described as a religion without a metaphysical belief.

While I bear no malice toward deists, the term “deist atheist” is a contradictory misnomer because atheism is also adeist. A person cannot believe in gods and not believe in gods at the same time.

 
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goodgraydrab
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06 January 2009 12:29
 
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 04:31 PM

Yeah sort of, though I don’t think those analogies are completely accurate.  Abandoning deistic beliefs you have been brought up with can be a difficult thing to do.  I know this from my own Mormon background. 

It is likely actually easier for some people to abandon religion itself, and even become anti-religious while at the same time keeping some deistic beliefs.  I doubt that most deistic atheists are very open about their deistic beliefs in public, but who in a telephone poll might be willing to be reveal them.  So they are mostly private beliefs which likely cause little harm to anyone.  That is why I am surprised there is so much resentment towards the acknowledgment of the existence of deistic atheists.

You’re describing an “Atheist Wannabe” (someone trying to be something they’re not), or a “Closet Atheist” (someone pretending to be something they’re not). This does not fall into the glass half full - half empty analogy. You either have the glass with water in it ... or you don’t. It’s either with or without. Any amount of with can’t be said to be without.

There’s no resentment, we simply strive to be rational.

 
 
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goodgraydrab
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06 January 2009 12:43
 
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 04:31 PM

Yeah sort of, though I don’t think those analogies are completely accurate.  Abandoning deistic beliefs you have been brought up with can be a difficult thing to do.  I know this from my own Mormon background.

By the way IS. Now that I know this, I’m going to give you a C+ for effort and heretofore, try to cut you some slack.

 
 
 
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GAD
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06 January 2009 12:52
 
goodgraydrab - 06 January 2009 05:43 PM
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 04:31 PM

Yeah sort of, though I don’t think those analogies are completely accurate.  Abandoning deistic beliefs you have been brought up with can be a difficult thing to do.  I know this from my own Mormon background.

By the way IS. Now that I know this, I’m going to give you a C+ for effort and heretofore, try to cut you some slack.

Does the “C” stand for Christian….

 
 
 
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Carstonio
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06 January 2009 13:17
 
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 04:31 PM

It is likely actually easier for some people to abandon religion itself, and even become anti-religious while at the same time keeping some deistic beliefs.

If that is the case, that’s probably only a small minority of deists. I suspect most deists were lukewarm at best about religion and arrived at their deist beliefs through an intellectual process and not an emotional one.

 
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07 January 2009 00:12
 
Carstonio - 06 January 2009 06:17 PM
Immediate Suppression - 06 January 2009 04:31 PM

It is likely actually easier for some people to abandon religion itself, and even become anti-religious while at the same time keeping some deistic beliefs.

If that is the case, that’s probably only a small minority of deists. I suspect most deists were lukewarm at best about religion and arrived at their deist beliefs through an intellectual process and not an emotional one.

It is a minority, but a significant one nonetheless.  And the poll I referred to earlier in this thread backs this up.  Religion is obviously not getting the respect it used to in American society, after events like 9/11 and other bad things that have come from theism, such as the current flare-up in the never-ending Israel/Palestine struggle.  People have reacted against it, and some of them have chosen to label themselves atheists, but only in that they are atheistic; opposed to religion.  That is how they interpret the word, and justifiably so based upon the broader wikipedia definition mentioned earlier.  For whatever reasons, which I have speculated to be an internal comfort of sorts, they have also hung onto some of their deistic tendencies; a belief in a God, higher power, or even universal spirit.

goodgraydrab’s label of wannabe atheists could also be applicable to these people, but the label deistic atheists is more accurate in terms of its descriptive value.  Really, it probably isn’t that big of a deal, deism itself seems relatively harmless to me, and many of these people could likely abandon their deistic beliefs over time.  Here is part of what Wikipedia says about Deism:

Wikipedia
Deists generally reject the notion of supernatural revelation as a basis of truth or religious dogma. These views contrast with the dependence on divine revelation found in many Christian[1], Islamic and Judaic teachings.

Deists typically reject most supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God (or “The Supreme Architect”) has a plan for the universe which he does not alter either by intervening in the affairs of human life or suspending the natural laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources.

Having said that, I am not a deist and do not advocate it in any way.  I don’t see any proof for any type of deity of any sort existing.

 
 
 
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Carstonio
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07 January 2009 03:44
 
Immediate Suppression - 07 January 2009 05:12 AM

People have reacted against it, and some of them have chosen to label themselves atheists, but only in that they are atheistic; opposed to religion.  That is how they interpret the word, and justifiably so based upon the broader wikipedia definition mentioned earlier.

Despite their intentions, they are using the word incorrectly, and so is Wikipedia.

 
goodgraydrab
 
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goodgraydrab
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07 January 2009 20:46
 
Immediate Suppression - 07 January 2009 05:12 AM

goodgraydrab’s label of wannabe atheists could also be applicable to these people, but the label deistic atheists is more accurate in terms of its descriptive value.  Really, it probably isn’t that big of a deal, deism itself seems relatively harmless to me, and many of these people could likely abandon their deistic beliefs over time.

So why don’t you just give it up and quit beating a dead horse? At the time they completely abandon their deistic beliefs, we’ll be glad to dub them Atheists in as an elaborate ceremony as they would prefer ... but you don’t earn the diploma til you graduate.