Will We Find the Soul?

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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28 January 2011 16:00
 

From:

Science’s 8 Greatest Unsolved Mysteries: Progress Report
In the year 2000, PM asked how eight of the most profound questions in science might (optimistically) be answered before the dawn of the 22nd century. So where are we now, a decade later? Here’s the skinny on some of science’s greatest mysteries—from attaining immortality and the search for alien life to traveling through tim

Will We Find the Soul?

The ability to create life on ever grander levels will bring to the fore that timeless quandary of what defines a unique individual, a unique mind and a unique consciousness—for lack of a better word, what defines a soul.

A developing field of inquiry known as neurotheology seeks to solve this mystery. “If the soul is the immaterial part of who we are, then at this point in time, science can only evaluate what happens within a person when they experience their soul in some way,” says Andrew Newberg, a neuroscientist and author of the recent book Principles of Neurotheology.

To this end, Newberg and his colleagues have scanned the brains of Tibetan monks, Franciscan nuns and Pentecostal Christians while engaged in spiritual exercises such as meditation and speaking in tongues. In the 10 years since PM first spoke with Newberg, he and his colleagues have looked at activity in the brains of 130 people. The researchers continue to see that “a relatively extensive network of brain structures is involved with religious and spiritual states,” Newberg says. By illuminating what the brain is up to in the throes of religious rapture, Newberg thinks neurotheology “can try to determine what brain and body functions appear to be associated with activities pertaining to the soul.”

It might be that finding the wellspring of consciousness and the soul, as it were, will result from delving still deeper—into the quantum-mechanical realm. Conventional constructs of consciousness are based on classical physics, with our mind emerging from a network of billions of neurons electrically firing away in the three pounds of mush in our skulls. “Most views assume consciousness arises strictly from synaptic computation among brain neurons,” says Stuart Hameroff, director of the Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona.

Along with Roger Penrose­—who will be mentioned again below—Hameroff co-created Orch OR (orchestrated objective reduction), a theory of quantum consciousness. Orch OR proposes an additional, major role for tiny cellular structures called microtubules. These hollow tubes partially compose the cytoskeleton that helps structure our cells’ interiors. According to Orch OR, “consciousness also depends on quantum computations in microtubules inside brain neurons,” Hameroff says.

At first blush, such a mechanism sounds unlikely; after all, the rudimentary quantum computers we’ve made in labs operate at extremely cold temperatures, not the toasty environment of upper 90s found in our brains. But results in the past five years point to quantum mechanics’ involvement in a number of nonfrigid biological processes, including photosynthesis, Hameroff notes. And intriguing preliminary findings from Anirban Bandyopadhyay, a physicist at the Japanese National Institute for Materials Science in Tsukuba, imply that bits of quantum information, dubbed qubits, can maintain their coherence in single, warm microtubules in cells. Future work could assess whether certain gases used for anesthesia can scramble this coherence—a powerful demonstration of a basic on/off switch for consciousness.

The details of Orch OR are dense and provocative. That “objective reduction” part refers to the boiling down of the range of possible positions a particle could have to just one position. This follows as a natural result of a universe governed by the twin titans of physics—relativity and quantum mechanics—interlinking at an incomprehensibly small, yet mathematically valid, scale called the Planck length (1.6 x 10–35 meters, for those keeping count).

Therefore, Hameroff says, Orch OR, if true, would “connect the brain directly to the most basic level of the universe from which consciousness is said to arise.” Such a link could have some profound ramifications, especially for believers in a soul. “The connection to space–time geometry also raises the intriguing possibility that Orch OR allows consciousness apart from the brain and body, distributed and entangled in space–time geometry,” Hameroff says. This could perhaps account “for so-called out-of-body experiences and afterlife—the ‘quantum soul.’”

 
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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29 January 2011 00:46
 

This seems to relate to the other current thread “the foundation of sentience.”

Could you explain more about your final paragraph?  I don’t understand

Orch OR, if true, would “connect the brain directly to the most basic level of the universe from which consciousness is said to arise.”

I also don’t understand

...the intriguing possibility that Orch OR allows consciousness apart from the brain and body

THX for the help

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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29 January 2011 00:55
 
hannahfriend - 28 January 2011 11:46 PM

This seems to relate to the other current thread “the foundation of sentience.”

Could you explain more about your final paragraph?  I don’t understand

Orch OR, if true, would “connect the brain directly to the most basic level of the universe from which consciousness is said to arise.”

I also don’t understand

...the intriguing possibility that Orch OR allows consciousness apart from the brain and body

THX for the help

I didn’t write this this is from an article in Popular Mechanics magazine called Science’s 8 Greatest Unsolved Mysteries:

I don’t call this science or a mystery, I call it bullshit. Just another wasted effort to try and make fantasy fit reality.

 
 
eudemonia
 
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eudemonia
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29 January 2011 01:34
 

Why are we looking for the soul, is it lost?

Flapdoodle.

 
 
GAD
 
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GAD
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29 January 2011 01:41
 
eudemonia - 29 January 2011 12:34 AM

Why are we looking for the soul, is it lost?

Flapdoodle.

But people want to believe, and when big time scientists talk about this shit, people are like see science just don’t know yet and then go buy The Secret or a Depak book.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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29 January 2011 01:51
 

In NT Greek, the word translated as “soul” is psuche. It’s the same word that forms the basis for our “psyche” and “psychology”. I suspect that it is also the root word for the 60’s word “sookie”, but I could be wrong.

 
GAD
 
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29 January 2011 01:57
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 12:51 AM

In NT Greek, the word translated as “soul” is psuche. It’s the same word that forms the basis for our “psyche” and “psychology”. I suspect that it is also the root word for the 60’s word “sookie”, but I could be wrong.

So god does a backup of your mind and if you pass the test he does a day 1 system restore in heaven.

 
 
EN
 
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EN
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29 January 2011 02:30
 
GAD - 29 January 2011 12:57 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 12:51 AM

In NT Greek, the word translated as “soul” is psuche. It’s the same word that forms the basis for our “psyche” and “psychology”. I suspect that it is also the root word for the 60’s word “sookie”, but I could be wrong.

So god does a backup of your mind and if you pass the test he does a day 1 system restore in heaven.

Something like that. He uploads your entire mind and then downloads it into a new body in the next age. So you come back with no imperfections. There’s a great, supreme hard drive out there that is saving everything.

 
GAD
 
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29 January 2011 06:47
 
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 01:30 AM
GAD - 29 January 2011 12:57 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 12:51 AM

In NT Greek, the word translated as “soul” is psuche. It’s the same word that forms the basis for our “psyche” and “psychology”. I suspect that it is also the root word for the 60’s word “sookie”, but I could be wrong.

So god does a backup of your mind and if you pass the test he does a day 1 system restore in heaven.

Something like that. He uploads your entire mind and then downloads it into a new body in the next age. So you come back with no imperfections. There’s a great, supreme hard drive out there that is saving everything.

It can’t be the entire mind because you will never be unhappy again or sin or what to watch porn or drink beer of screw your neighbors wife etc etc. No there is no way you can be you in heaven.

 
 
Gila Guerilla
 
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Gila Guerilla
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29 January 2011 17:09
 
GAD - 29 January 2011 05:47 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 01:30 AM
GAD - 29 January 2011 12:57 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 12:51 AM

In NT Greek, the word translated as “soul” is psuche. It’s the same word that forms the basis for our “psyche” and “psychology”. I suspect that it is also the root word for the 60’s word “sookie”, but I could be wrong.

So god does a backup of your mind and if you pass the test he does a day 1 system restore in heaven.

Something like that. He uploads your entire mind and then downloads it into a new body in the next age. So you come back with no imperfections. There’s a great, supreme hard drive out there that is saving everything.

It can’t be the entire mind because you will never be unhappy again or sin or what to watch porn or drink beer of screw your neighbors wife etc etc. No there is no way you can be you in heaven.

So . . . souls can be good without evi?. So evil is not necessary for good to exist. So in theology, the notions of justifying evil and suffering on this earth, by saying they make good and peace and freewill possible are B.S.

 
 
hannahtoo
 
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hannahtoo
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29 January 2011 18:12
 

Well, I did read on a couple of sites about Orch OR, and it was 90% way beyond me.  But I did get the theory about microtubules in cells being key to nerve impulses.  Seems that unicellular critters, like the paramecium, sense and respond to their environment, and they move their cilia in a coordinated fashion to swim…their microtubule network might be responsible for this.  And animal nerves have a microtubule network too.  That’s cool.

Also, I think the article was saying that thought is unpredictable and so may be connected to the uncertainty operating at quantum levels.  But then other people dispute this.  When it gets to that level of physics and chemistry, there are very few people who have the understanding required to agree or refute!

 
GAD
 
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GAD
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29 January 2011 21:54
 
Gila Guerilla - 29 January 2011 04:09 PM
GAD - 29 January 2011 05:47 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 01:30 AM
GAD - 29 January 2011 12:57 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 12:51 AM

In NT Greek, the word translated as “soul” is psuche. It’s the same word that forms the basis for our “psyche” and “psychology”. I suspect that it is also the root word for the 60’s word “sookie”, but I could be wrong.

So god does a backup of your mind and if you pass the test he does a day 1 system restore in heaven.

Something like that. He uploads your entire mind and then downloads it into a new body in the next age. So you come back with no imperfections. There’s a great, supreme hard drive out there that is saving everything.

It can’t be the entire mind because you will never be unhappy again or sin or what to watch porn or drink beer of screw your neighbors wife etc etc. No there is no way you can be you in heaven.

So . . . souls can be good without evi?. So evil is not necessary for good to exist. So in theology, the notions of justifying evil and suffering on this earth, by saying they make good and peace and freewill possible are B.S.

Yep! It’s right there in the bible too, god made a prefect world with prefect people (A&E) with no sin, evil, death or suffering.

 
 
aaafka
 
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aaafka
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27 February 2013 16:38
 
GAD - 29 January 2011 08:54 PM
Gila Guerilla - 29 January 2011 04:09 PM
GAD - 29 January 2011 05:47 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 01:30 AM
GAD - 29 January 2011 12:57 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 12:51 AM

Yep! It’s right there in the bible too, god made a prefect world with prefect people (A&E) with no sin, evil, death or suffering.

 


That’s right. And man is the cause of evil and suffering in the world.

 
dacecain
 
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dacecain
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27 February 2013 17:57
 
Quin - 27 February 2013 03:38 PM
GAD - 29 January 2011 08:54 PM
Gila Guerilla - 29 January 2011 04:09 PM
GAD - 29 January 2011 05:47 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 01:30 AM
GAD - 29 January 2011 12:57 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 29 January 2011 12:51 AM

Yep! It’s right there in the bible too, god made a prefect world with prefect people (A&E) with no sin, evil, death or suffering.

 


That’s right. And man is the cause of evil and suffering in the world.

So man isn’t allowed into heaven or he’ll ruin it.