A Word to Mr. Harris and those who hold similar views:

 
 
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SkepticX
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06 August 2007 03:57
 

[quote author=“Bruce Burleson”]Psychosis is a mental illness that markedly interferes with a person’s capacity to meet life’s daily demands.


Is it?


[quote author=“Bruce Burleson”]That excludes most Christians, who get along just fine.  In fact, the next person who will run this country, whatever party or ideology he/she belongs to/believes, will be a Christian. So work on your definition a little - it should exclude believers who have no problem whatsoever meeting life’s daily demands.


So those who think space aliens (or sentient fungi ... whatever) are trying to control them (and sometimes succeed), but who can function just fine because the aliens are good, aren’t psychotic?

Hmmm ...

It seems that definition says a lot too.

Byron

 
 
 
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SkepticX
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06 August 2007 04:10
 

[quote author=“CanZen”]PSYCHOSIS:  “Any severe form of mental disturbance or disease which may also be associated with physical disease . . .”

of course this definition goes on to make the point,  “. . . and which produces deep and far-reaching disruption of normal behaviour and social functioning.”

However, this latter statement (which includes the ‘normal behaviour’ and ‘social functioning’ conditions), appears to weaken the impact of the original reference to mental disturbance.  What this definition implies is that if the vast majority are denying the efficacy and veracity of science while they attend theistic worship services and believe in the existence of supernatural beings, then they are not to be considered as psychotic.


It also ignores the fact that a given society can function in such way that accommodates a given psychosis. In the past individual psychoses have been accommodated in the case royalty and such, and I’d say witch hunts and such are arguably cases of large scale psychoses being accommodated. In any case the DSM is all about diagnoses that are based upon the presence of a given number or symptoms. Some disorders have specific required symptoms, but my understanding is that most only need to have a given number of any from a list symptoms.

Seems very telling it comes quickly to debating precise details regarding how deeply irrational behavior is or isn’t technically considered psychosis since we’re comparing it to religion.

Byron

[ Edited: 06 August 2007 04:14 by ]
 
 
 
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nv
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06 August 2007 04:14
 

[quote author=“SkepticX”][quote author=“Bruce Burleson”]Psychosis is a mental illness that markedly interferes with a person’s capacity to meet life’s daily demands.


Is it?


[quote author=“Bruce Burleson”]That excludes most Christians, who get along just fine.  In fact, the next person who will run this country, whatever party or ideology he/she belongs to/believes, will be a Christian. So work on your definition a little - it should exclude believers who have no problem whatsoever meeting life’s daily demands.


So those who think space aliens (or sentient fungi ... whatever) are trying to control them (and sometimes succeed), but who can function just fine because the aliens are good, aren’t psychotic?

Hmmm ...

It seems that definition says a lot too.

Byron

Good point, Byron. I know someone who hangs out at downtown coffee places preaching alien abduction and much other nonsense, and he’s been able to hold down a full-time job for as long as I’ve known him—10 years or so. Granted, it’s a low-pay job, but he gets along without public assistance and he has paranoid schizophrenia. (I know about this diagnosis because a good friend of mine is a cognitive psychologist who knows this person.) It’s when people become or appear violent—whether or not they experience mental illness—that authorities take drastic action.

Looking at it from the perspective of Thomas Szasz, we all have our little (or not so little) mental disorders. They probably tend to hamper our social lives and thereby our work lives as well. But they don’t on their own cause us necessarily to be unable to function in the world.

Come on back to Sonoma County and I’ll introduce you.

 
 
 
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burt
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06 August 2007 07:27
 

[quote author=“Bruce Burleson”]
I disagree with Burt when he says that the ones who really get it don’t talk much about God.  IF God exists and IF he encounters someone, how could that person talk about much of anything else?

Because such a person would be in the position of the Stoic Sage, whose every action was correct because his or her will had united with the Universal Logos.  This person would continue on with their life, “chopping wood and carrying water.”  At the same time, having achieved theosis (unity with the divine) every word this person spoke would be infused with the divine, even though it was just ordinary conversation.  The people who claim to have had encounters with God and who can’t talk about anything else are like the folks who can’t stop talking about their acid trips.

 
 
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g.wood
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06 August 2007 10:46
 
[quote author=“burt”] the folks who can’t stop talking about their acid trips.

Are they still around? I haven’t met one in a very long time.

 
 
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g.wood
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06 August 2007 11:03
 
[quote author=“SkepticX”] DSM is all about diagnoses that are based upon the presence of a given number or symptoms. Some disorders have specific required symptoms, but my understanding is that most only need to have a given number of any from a list symptoms.

There’s wording about frequency of symptoms, too. Lots of people who are diagnosed as this or that appear to be healthy a lot of the time. Then they “go off” for a week, month, whatever.

Here’s how people get diagnosed in a state psych hospital—After the patient has been drugged into zombiedom for a few days or weeks, two doctors gather up a bunch of charts, which usually contain information from some overworked social worker who probably copied it from some other chart, and walk through the ward, glancing at the person and the chart. Maybe they’ve spent a few minutes with the person sometime earlier, to prescribe Thorazine or another control drug. It takes two to make a legal initial diagnosis. They look at the guy. “PS?” “Um.” Next! If nothing fits, it’s “Borderline Personality,” which means something like “etc.”

 
 
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burt
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06 August 2007 11:05
 
[quote author=“g.wood”][quote author=“burt”] the folks who can’t stop talking about their acid trips.

Are they still around? I haven’t met one in a very long time.

Would that we could say the same about Pat Robinson and his ilk.

 
 
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SkepticX
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06 August 2007 15:43
 

[quote author=“g.wood”]Here’s how people get diagnosed in a state psych hospital ...


I know a lot of doctors (comes from having been married to one for the better part of two decades), and while I’m not sure about the details, I know a lot of them had similar issues with psychiatry. A lot of them deal with some fairly strong paranoia on their psychiatry rotations because they’re afraid their “symptoms” will become too apparent and they’ll end up as residents, and not the post-grad type.

Byron

 
 
 
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g.wood
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07 August 2007 13:53
 

[quote author=“SkepticX”][quote author=“g.wood”]Here’s how people get diagnosed in a state psych hospital ...


I know a lot of doctors (comes from having been married to one for the better part of two decades), and while I’m not sure about the details, I know a lot of them had similar issues with psychiatry. A lot of them deal with some fairly strong paranoia on their psychiatry rotations because they’re afraid their “symptoms” will become too apparent and they’ll end up as residents, and not the post-grad type.

Byron

Yeah, we’re all crazy, it’s just a matter of degree. And not the kind you get in school.

 
tanstaafl28
 
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tanstaafl28
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12 October 2007 14:34
 
VicM - 17 July 2007 04:24 PM

Psalm 14:1

If you need a book to tell you how to be good, what to think, and how to believe, you’ve got much bigger problems than anybody here.

 
tanstaafl28
 
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tanstaafl28
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12 October 2007 15:06
 
VicM - 18 July 2007 12:20 PM

One thing I have learned about those who deny the existence of God is that they are usually people who are involved in gross immorality (ie pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, bestiallity, etc.) and they don’t like the fact that there is One to whom they will answer to. That is the bottom line. You love your sin and you’re willing to do anything to pursue it - even if it means suspending all mental properties.

Reason has nothing to do with what you people are doing. Reason, just like genuine science, always pionts to God. But, as I stated above, to pursue your sin, you’re willing to suspend all mental capability.

Thus, God is right in His assessment when He says that you are fools.

The one thing you’ve demonstrated quite clearly is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 
 
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Aaron
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12 October 2007 15:14
 
tanstaafl28 - 12 October 2007 07:06 PM
VicM - 18 July 2007 12:20 PM

One thing I have learned about those who deny the existence of God is that they are usually people who are involved in gross immorality (ie pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, bestiallity, etc.) and they don’t like the fact that there is One to whom they will answer to. That is the bottom line. You love your sin and you’re willing to do anything to pursue it - even if it means suspending all mental properties.

Reason has nothing to do with what you people are doing. Reason, just like genuine science, always pionts to God. But, as I stated above, to pursue your sin, you’re willing to suspend all mental capability.

Thus, God is right in His assessment when He says that you are fools.

The one thing you’ve demonstrated quite clearly is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Hey tanstaafl28, you’ve got that right. But VicM likes to drop his silly little stinkbombs and then flee out of sight for long periods of time.  Hopefully forever this time!

 
 
 
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Sib
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24 December 2007 11:08
 
tanstaafl28 - 12 October 2007 07:06 PM
VicM - 18 July 2007 12:20 PM

One thing I have learned about those who deny the existence of God is that they are usually people who are involved in gross immorality (ie pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, bestiallity, etc.) and they don’t like the fact that there is One to whom they will answer to. That is the bottom line. You love your sin and you’re willing to do anything to pursue it - even if it means suspending all mental properties.

Reason has nothing to do with what you people are doing. Reason, just like genuine science, always points to God. But, as I stated above, to pursue your sin, you’re willing to suspend all mental capability.

Thus, God is right in His assessment when He says that you are fools.

The one thing you’ve demonstrated quite clearly is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I just finished reading through 30 pages (which might actually qualify me as the ‘fool’ he claims I am) and I agree that he abounds with ignorance.

However, I do have to thank him for providing so many excellent examples of just about every conversational fallacy and bias ever listed.  It is nice to have them all in one place, especially when he starts out in post number one with such a bright and shiny example of confirmation bias and just gets better and better as it goes along.

I have to admire his consistency.

 
baskerville
 
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baskerville
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27 December 2007 10:06
 
VicM - 18 July 2007 12:20 PM

One thing I have learned about those who deny the existence of God is that they are usually people who are involved in gross immorality (ie pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, bestiallity, etc.)

Can you explain how it is that you have “learned” this?  Is it from experience?  Did somebody tell you this?

I think that all you are doing here is admitting that without your belief in god, you would be tempted by these various sexual indiscretions.

 
 
 
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Samson
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27 December 2007 22:13
 

This is the only and final post for “V”....

Not only are you “Brainwashed”, but you have “NO PROOF” other than that mommy and daddy raised you to believe the “Shit” that comes out of your mind…Now if Mommy and Daddy did not raise you to “Believe” this BS, then you had some type of outside influence… That’s a given…

I’m not going to argue with you, because it’s clear you have, (Like you so called Christians like to put it) Lost your way….

Hey, good luck in life, and maybe one day you’ll see the “light”.. smile