Hitler’s Theology

 
 
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mesomorph
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19 March 2008 04:07
 

[quote author=“Sander”]I am a Dutch guy living in the USA and I am still amazed by the ‘obedience’ that gazillions of Americans display towards their corrupt and criminal current government.

It is barely believable from any rational standpoint. My own view is that America itself is a religion, with fundamental beliefs that cannot be questioned without toppling the whole edifice. This might account for the ‘non-negotiability’ (read ‘sacredness’) of the American Way of Life and the fervent paranoia of Americans regarding it.

Also I have heard that Americans will always tend to honour the incumbent president, not because the man is respected but because the office itself is beyond disrespect.

[quote author=“Aaron”]Don’t forget that all-time favorite: “America: love it or leave it!”

I don’t know which came first but I remember seeing a roadside poster in France during Le Pen’s campaign about 10 years ago: ‘La France: aimez-la ou quittez-la’.

[quote author=“uli”]Yes and then there is ‘unamerican’ - I’ve never heard the term ‘unfrench’ or ‘unrussian’ used.  Anti, sure, but not ‘un’.

We have ‘Un-British’. Not used much any more except ironically, but means dishonourable, unfair or ‘not cricket’. We have never had ‘anti-British’ - the term has no meaning.

[ Edited: 19 March 2008 04:11 by mesomorph]
 
 
 
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Uncle
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15 March 2016 20:38
 

Regardless of what Hitler believed the Millions of German people who fought for him were clearly Christian and hardly innocent. I think you need to do a little more research on the subject there is more then enough objective evidence to support these facts.  http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

[ Edited: 15 March 2016 20:41 by Uncle]
 
 
Antisocialdarwinist
 
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Antisocialdarwinist
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16 March 2016 09:53
 
Clausewitz - 15 March 2016 09:36 PM
Uncle - 15 March 2016 08:38 PM

Regardless of what Hitler believed the Millions of German people who fought for him were clearly Christian and hardly innocent. I think you need to do a little more research on the subject there is more then enough objective evidence to support these facts.  http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

The question I addressed was “Hitler’s Theology.”  I was correcting Sam Harris’ misconception that Hitler was not an atheist.

Your first sentence dismissed the subject of Hitler’s Theology.  What is it you want to say?

That religion is the root of all evil. Therefore, Hitler must have been religious. And the Germans who fought for him must have done so out of religious belief.

Sarcasm aside, I’ve also read (other sources) of Hitler’s plans to rid Germany of religion, which he saw as a competitor to the Nazi party. Only the turn of events in the east thwarted his plans. He couldn’t afford to embark on what he knew would be an unpopular program, not while his campaign against the Soviets was faltering.

 
 
 
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unsmoked
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16 March 2016 11:47
 
gsmonks - 15 March 2016 09:49 PM

The Republican party is the political arm of the Religious Right in the US. It is not a legitimate political entity.

Is this why Republicans say Trump is destroying the party?  But why then does Sarah Palin support him?  Does the Religious Right think they can control him once he’s in the White House?

McCain/Palin needed another 10% of the vote to win.  Trump has been playing his cards to win that additional 10% of the vote.  Has he succeeded?  (winning over racist Democrats, blue collar unemployed or under-employed, anti free trade Democrats etc., Democrats who think man-made climate change is a hoax, etc. etc.)

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
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16 March 2016 22:32
 

Mr. Claus…

I am unable to send you a PM. Your inbox claims it is full. See if other messages have migrated to your account. We’re still working out the bugs here.

 
 
 
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EN
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17 March 2016 04:23
 
unsmoked - 16 March 2016 11:47 AM

McCain/Palin needed another 10% of the vote to win.

Not even: the national vote was 52.9% - 45.7% (approximately). The rest were for third parties.  That is a difference of 7.2%, with half of that being 3.6%, so the mid-point between the two was 49.3%.  So McCain/Palin only needed an additional 3.6% of the popular vote to tie Obama/Biden, and 3.7% to win in that category.  Granted, that probably would not have changed the ultimate outcome, due to the electoral system.  But it would have given McCain, and therefore Palin, a legitimate argument of being the nation’s actual choice.  Only 3.7%.

This Math Moment is brought to you by Mr. Math.

 

 
 
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unsmoked
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17 March 2016 12:20
 
EN - 17 March 2016 04:23 AM
unsmoked - 16 March 2016 11:47 AM

McCain/Palin needed another 10% of the vote to win.

Not even: the national vote was 52.9% - 45.7% (approximately). The rest were for third parties.  That is a difference of 7.2%, with half of that being 3.6%, so the mid-point between the two was 49.3%.  So McCain/Palin only needed an additional 3.6% of the popular vote to tie Obama/Biden, and 3.7% to win in that category.  Granted, that probably would not have changed the ultimate outcome, due to the electoral system.  But it would have given McCain, and therefore Palin, a legitimate argument of being the nation’s actual choice.  Only 3.7%.

This Math Moment is brought to you by Mr. Math.

 

I made the same miscalculation in December.  Your correction is like learning a Gibraltar-size meteorite is going to brush the top of Earth’s atmosphere, instead of just hitting the moon.

 

 
 
Larry Olson
 
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Larry Olson
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28 March 2016 16:53
 

Not many people know that Hitler was quoted as saying he wished he had chosen Islam as the religion of choice.  I.e. the selected religion to make everyone belong to, instead of catholicism or others.  Muslims were willing to fight to the death whereas christians were more submissive and jesus like, not so warrior like. So he wanted to choose Islam in hindsight and was quoted as saying such.

I would like to find the quote, but I’m too lazy to look it up right now. If someone wants to find the information or knows of it please link to it.

Hitler likely was not religious but wanted the whole country to be mostly religious, as a tool, like a drug, to keep them fighting to the death. After all, if you are going to fight in a war it helps to have an insurance plan (heaven when you die) in place.

Without heaven as a promise, or the in god we trust on their belts (or whatever it said), why would you bother fighting the fight? If you have heaven on your side, like muslims do, and christians, then at least if you die in war you get rewarded. As an atheist you just die and nothing happens.

Not many people know, also, that the Muslims were united with the Nazis in world war 2 in the later stages when they me up and fought together against the Jewish conspiracy. Muslims and Nazis both disliked the jews so they were perfect brothers. The only problem was, Muslims generally don’t have white Aryan skin so Hitler and the Nazis had to find a way to justify their brotherhood together. Similar with Japanese people - as they have brown/yellow skin and they had to find ways to justify their brotherhood with them. Something along the lines of Arab people had White qualities to their facial features, or other such racial conspiracies. “At least arabs weren’t jews and looked kind of like white people if you squinted the right way” or some such.

Forum bug found: why is my text Italics when I never made my text itallic? Open “i” html tag somewhere in the above post?

[ Edited: 28 March 2016 16:56 by Larry Olson]
 
 
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_____
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17 April 2016 11:52
 

>On the side I certainly do find it hard for Sam Harris to truly believe that Hitler wasn’t anything but a devout atheistic naturalist.

Man this thread has been at it almost a decade.

I am pretty tired of the “No True Scotsman™” fallacies about the “True Nature of Hitler, Nazis and Christians.®”
Xians particularly feed this is as the endgame for unbelievers and the perils of not being submissive.
Anyone with memory of actual Nazis would never think otherwise - look around in your part of town for a Nazi (they will be old) and talk to them.
Do some research on how post war Nazis lived. 
If you are American do some research on how Nazis would be interrogated - seems like they could be swayed in many cases from just “swearing on a bible.”

It is nonsense to believe industrial scale anti semitism during the 20th century could be possible whiteout religion, specifically the Christian.

Does anyone still think Hitler was an atheist?

 
Larry Olson
 
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Larry Olson
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17 April 2016 15:35
 
_____ - 17 April 2016 11:52 AM

Does anyone still think Hitler was an atheist?

You aren’t very well read on history are you? Hitler was a fan of Darwin and was not a christian as far as the research tells us. He specifically chose religion as a drug to make the soldiers fight harder. You don’t have to be a christian yourself in order to employ religion as a tool (like a medication) to make soldiers work harder in war. It’s similar to an atheist british priest at an anglican church who doesn’t believe in what his church teaches, but continues his job anyway because he thinks it is a useful tool to keep british idiots more calm, relaxed, and peaceful (or whatever other absurd justifications).

If you research the subject, Hitler wishes he would have chosen Islam as muslims fight to death. Sort of like a person choosing between giving soldiers marijauna, or choosing cocaine to make them fight better. Or steroids. If I was a war strategist I would not give them dope (mary jane) or christianity before allowing them to beat people to death…. Jesus was a liberal diaper man on a cross, not exactly a war time hero.  How many head shots do you think gay for jesus soldiers can get compared to Muslim terrorists willing to psych themselves up enough to blow themselves up to kill 2000 people..

Now on the other hand, I believe in Mein Kamph or “my struggle”, Hitler did write about how he was angry with jews for killing jesus. So he may have been one of those christians who was confused whether jesus was true, and also a follower of Darwin at the same time.  What I just described may be the catholic church, extremely confused bunch, who believe in evolution but still believe in fairy tales of the bible which contradict evolution in all ways.

[ Edited: 17 April 2016 15:37 by Larry Olson]
 
 
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June
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17 April 2016 17:30
 

I’m ploughing through a biography of Goebbels diary, including Ordinary Men.  The latter has left me numb over the human condition, and at a loss for any decent expression. 
 
Neither book indicates Hitler as having a Christian belief.  He took issue with some clergy and churches that stood up to him.  He, and his underlings did however understand human weakness, and exploited the use of spirituality with propaganda.    Goebbels propaganda was mixed with heavy handed intimidation aimed towards the German population which had tested and separated much of the populace.  There were some strong Christians that had taken a stand against the SS, but there was a penalty for doing so.  There was also a number of Christians within the Protestant and Catholic church that thought Hitler insane.  Goebbels believed in Hitler as the messenger or redeemer for the German nation sent by a god, though his god is not really defined.  His job, according to the diaries was to convince the people of that vision.

One small piece of history from the book Ordinary Men has the reserve police, consisting of mostly middle aged men faltering from the non-stop killing and rounding up of the Jews after entering Poland.  Squadron leaders were instructed to allow the men spiritual recess, and shield them from their own actions, to avoid depression so as to keep up the momentum of slaughter in a systematic way that was expected to go on for months. 
A few dropped out from not having the stomach to kill.  However, the fear of being shamed from some of the leaders and fellow comrades for being weakly and cowardly for not participating in the liquidation of “Bolshevic Jews”  enemy of Germany and Europe kept most from bowing out.  The killings went on systematically all day and night, for months on end.  The pressure to not break from rank and file, or appear “weak” was more frightening for most than abstaining from the killings.  There was very little to no moral autonomy to stand apart from the Nazi machine already in place from years of propaganda, and hatred for the Jews.  There were some priests in Poland that participated from their own religious rationale.  When the transport trains came carrying thousands to their deaths, many soldiers/ reserve police did not notice the screams coming from the trains, or blink over the deaths in the crematoriums.

  There was some form of a spirituality they shared towards one another, but it was focused on the inconveniences of their own experiences, shielding their eyes from the horror they were committing. 

 
 
 
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skidrower
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20 April 2016 02:24
 

There’s a long video on Youtube of Cenk Uygur interviewing Sam and they bring up Hitler’s religion. Cenk basically says “If muslims do something wrong you blame it on their religion but with the Nazis we say religion had nothing to do with it”.

Sam says that Hitler is often mislabeled as being an atheist. Apparently the nazis had something like “god is with us” stamped on their belt buckles. Sam also says that the final solution was the byproduct of many years of Christian hatred toward the Jews. This is somewhat weird since so many Christian religious figures were Jewish.

The only thing that can be said in defense of Christianity here is that there is no direct line between the Christian ideology and the holocaust. With Islam, there is - an encouragement to spread religion through conquest.

You could say the same about what’s probably one of the greatest stains on Christianity in modern times - pedophile priests. Here again, there’s no straight line from the bible to pedophilia and priests don’t openly advocate abuse of children, like some muslim leaders encourage conquest, jihad, martyrdom.

The video’s definitely worth a watch.

 
 
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unsmoked
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20 April 2016 11:41
 
skidrower - 20 April 2016 02:24 AM

You could say the same about what’s probably one of the greatest stains on Christianity in modern times - pedophile priests.

Let’s not forget the Christian missionaries telling Africans that condom use is sinful.  Because of this, millions died horribly, and unnecessarily, from AIDS.  More people died from this than all the victims of the Inquisition.

 
 
 
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unsmoked
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20 April 2016 11:41
 
skidrower - 20 April 2016 02:24 AM

You could say the same about what’s probably one of the greatest stains on Christianity in modern times - pedophile priests.

Let’s not forget the Christian missionaries telling Africans that condom use is sinful.  Because of this, millions died horribly, and unnecessarily, from AIDS.  More people died from this than all the victims of the Inquisition.

 
 
 
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Terrorfrog
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02 May 2016 13:51
 

Hello everyone, this is my first post and it will be controversial.
Please forgive all errors in Grammar and spelling, iam not a native Speaker.

Now about Hitler. Well i was about to elaborate circumstances closer just to end up at writing a book here. Well lets leave that for now and make it short and Snappy.

First himself wasn’t really much christian even raised deeply christian as any Austrian and german was.
However he was good in using people, the antisemite movement was there and full in motion long before he even became political.
He even had a Jewish roommate and made his living trough Jewish art dealer in his time in Vienna.

I think is also very important to mention 2 other facts about his personality. First he was disgusted by the idea to learn a “bred job”. Instead he insisted to pursue the live of a painter, even he was refused by the arts academy twice. He even refused to give his mothers heritage to his younger sister who was a minor and now without a parent, just to finance his dream to become a painter. he lived a very poor live until his time in the army in the first world war.


Now the antisemite movement on the other hand was at this time already very strong, in real battles with the goverment, and a failed coup after 1st world war.
it was driven by mostly economic jealousy, but also by Christianity, at least fueled by it.
therefore it is just logic he made a lot of religios statements, even the SS ward religiose symbols and insignias. not because of Hitler believes but the believes of his base of power. And he was very very good to use whatever he can as the role model for any opportunistic psychopath

However he wasnt a real atheist either.
He was obsessed with his whish for a super weapon, not only those he let create by engineers and scientists but also ancient.
for example he obtained the Speer of destiny, he let search for the holy grail and the Ark of the Covenant
Nothing was secure for his dreams of victory and world dominance.

So no he wasnt Christian in Terms of a real believing Sheep running to Church and Kissing Priests hands, not really Atheist.
But he was very good to make use of everything he could get his hands on for his personal Dreams.

Was it destroying of all Jews? Well that would be Topic of a separate debate but the very least he would have accepted it without batting an eye just to strengthen his inner political base. Specially within the inner circle of Power. After all it was that Movement he rose up from within and came to ultimate power.
Therefore all of his political Circle was the radical and very religios anti Semitic NSDAP


And yes he admired the Islam. THe Mujahedeen was his dream soldier, willing to go into death for the cause. It went so far he tried to build another arm of his miltiary with soley muslimic fighters.

So for him, religion was a way todo things, he used any ideology he though he cna gain something while himself not really religiose but still enough to think that maybe there is something onto those allegedly superweapons.


PS: He wasnt really muhc into the German Superrace either. Not really. In the last days of War, when he declared total war and burned Ground as a Doctrin he kinda said they all (Germans and German Sldiers) deserve to die because they lost the war (therefor his Dreams). Which made clear, whatever he said, it was at least at the inner deepest core, just for his personal selfish dreams of world domination and easy life. Even if that has ment destruction and killing of the biggest part of mankind.