something may be intervening

 
 
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eudemonia
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12 November 2008 17:19
 

SC, not sure your synopsis is correct. I don’t think fuckwittery has as much intervened, as I think it has flat taken the fuck over this entire thread!

 
 
 
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Beam
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13 November 2008 06:27
 

Nice makeup ii. I’ve never seen the Joker look so enticing! Did something intervene at that party?

 
 
Immediate Suppression
 
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Immediate Suppression
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13 November 2008 09:01
 
Carstonio - 12 November 2008 11:52 AM

The “something may be intervening” concept is simply the creationism rationale in New Age garb. “We can’t explain something scientifically, so there MUST be something transcendental or supernatural involved.” That’s much more than simply not ruling out remote possibilities, and it’s much more than baseless speculation. It’s a huge assumptive leap. With phenomena that appear unexplainable, it’s not a crisis if we don’t have the answer, and it’s intellectually irresponsible to make up an answer.

I’ve never said there MUST be something intervening.  I said something may be intervening.  There is no way to rule it out, so a little speculation isn’t irresponsible here.  I’m not religious, I’m not new-age, it’s just keeping an open mind to alternative possibilities. 

And you are correct, it is not a crisis if we don’t have the answers about everything, even though many people in this forum seem to attempt to pretend to think that we do know the answers about everything, and attempt to cover up their anxiety over this issue by…pretending we do know everything.

 
 
Bongobongo Smith
 
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Bongobongo Smith
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13 November 2008 09:17
 
Immediate Suppression - 13 November 2008 02:01 PM

..even though many people in this forum seem to attempt to pretend to think that we do know the answers about everything, and attempt to cover up their anxiety over this issue by…pretending we do know everything.

...and you will of cause back up that statement
with a few examples of the “many people
“pretending we do know everything”.

Quotes please.

 
 
 
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Aaron
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13 November 2008 10:10
 

IS, you’re a lost cause. You’re going to continue justifying your predilection toward woo as “keeping an open mind.”  Nothing to learn here, folks. Move on.

 
 
 
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Beam
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13 November 2008 10:35
 

I’m convinced, Jefe. I’m quitting the church of The Fonz and joining your flock. Are Scratch and Dr Pepper elders?

 
 
 
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Carstonio
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13 November 2008 12:02
 
Immediate Suppression - 13 November 2008 02:01 PM

I’ve never said there MUST be something intervening.  I said something may be intervening.  There is no way to rule it out, so a little speculation isn’t irresponsible here.  I’m not religious, I’m not new-age, it’s just keeping an open mind to alternative possibilities.

Speculation IS intellectually irresponsible in the absence of evidence, because that absence means there is no way to separate good ideas from bad. That’s like seeing a closed suitcase and guessing what may be on the inside without opening it or at least picking it up and shaking it.

What do you mean by “alternative possibilities”? That term sounds very vague, and vagueness in scientific endeavors is another example of intellectual irresponsibility. “Alternative possibilities” can be whatever the hell someone wants it to be for their own convenience.

 
 
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SkepticX
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13 November 2008 12:16
 
Carstonio - 13 November 2008 05:02 PM

Speculation IS intellectually irresponsible in the absence of evidence, because that absence means there is no way to separate good ideas from bad. That’s like seeing a closed suitcase and guessing what may be on the inside without opening it or at least picking it up and shaking it.

Speculation is fine. I’d hate it if Larry Niven and Neal Stephenson and Robert Heinlein (etc, etc) stopped speculating. The problem is when the speculator fails to appreciate that the speculation is pure fiction—not really “possibility” in the sense of a potential explanation (that would be premature), but rather, until evidenced, in the sense of viable fiction.

Carstonio - 13 November 2008 05:02 PM

What do you mean by “alternative possibilities”? That term sounds very vague, and vagueness in scientific endeavors is another example of intellectual irresponsibility. “Alternative possibilities” can be whatever the hell someone wants it to be for their own convenience.

Yeah ... sounds like he’s trying to move “believable fiction” into the “potential explanation” category prematurely. Actually I’d argue that he’s also trying to by-pass the “believable fiction” part too, not having gotten there yet.

Byron

 
 
 
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eudemonia
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13 November 2008 13:07
 

‘Something’ is not an alternative possibility. Too vauge. Something can be anything. Anything is nothing without evidence. Seriously, can it be said any simpler than that?

Things, ideas, illusions etc., that are vauge, baseless and speculatory and without evidence not only can be ruled out, should not even be considered in the first place.

This has nothing to do with open mindedness and has everything to do with REASON and rational thinking and understanding.

I think magic is real, and SOMETHING exists outside the laws of physics. So just because I think and say this, it cannot be ruled out? Preposterous.

 
 
 
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Traces Elk
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13 November 2008 13:18
 
McCreason - 13 November 2008 06:07 PM

‘Something can be anything. Anything is nothing without evidence.

Nothing means nothing. Nothing don’t mean something, because nothing is something that isn’t.—Darryl Dawkins

 
 
 
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SkepticX
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13 November 2008 13:22
 
McCreason - 13 November 2008 06:07 PM

‘Something’ is not an alternative possibility. Too vauge. Something can be anything. Anything is nothing without evidence. Seriously, can it be said any simpler than that?

I personally think that’s a pretty effective cut to the chase, man.

Without some rationally viable follow-up it’s pretty meaningless, on the order of saying “something may be happening” as if that in itself says anything of meaning at all.

I was going to say it’s like being asked out to dinner and replying “colors may be involved” but that’s just random. It’s actually far more specific and intelligible than “something may be intervening.”

Byron

 
 
isocratic infidel
 
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isocratic infidel
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13 November 2008 13:26
 
Salt Creek - 12 November 2008 09:13 PM

Fuckwittery may be intervening.


Chaos Sir Creek… merely an attempt to visually inspire chaos to intervene.

Jefe: Now, since these E.L.F.s are too small to see, and invisible to boot, it will be mighty difficult to disprove their existence.  Since they travel around at light speed - riding their quarks like little rodeo stallions, they don’t stay in one place long enough for other detection attempts to nail them down.  Don’t let their all-but impossible-to-detect status discourage you, however.  Just keep an open mind about the possibility that they exist and are affecting you in a personal and measurable fashion.

... chaotic quark riding E.L.F.s ? Indeed.

the Beamer: Nice makeup ii. I’ve never seen the Joker look so enticing! Did something intervene at that party?

Thanks, and unfortunately, nope… nary a trick or treater… but the ones who came had to tell a joke or no treat… chaos was the rule of the night, so they each got handfuls of candy and hopefully an E.L.F.

 
 
 
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eudemonia
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13 November 2008 13:49
 

Is Darryl Dawkins Richard Dawkins’ nephew? Son? Adopted chocolate thunder?

 
 
Immediate Suppression
 
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Immediate Suppression
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13 November 2008 15:11
 
Carstonio - 13 November 2008 05:02 PM

Speculation IS intellectually irresponsible in the absence of evidence, because that absence means there is no way to separate good ideas from bad. That’s like seeing a closed suitcase and guessing what may be on the inside without opening it or at least picking it up and shaking it.

 
Like I said on another thread, sometimes scientists need to throw some mud on the wall, just to see what sticks.  And there is evidence of alternative possibilities, the electro pulse I have experienced.

Carstonio - 13 November 2008 05:02 PM

What do you mean by “alternative possibilities”? That term sounds very vague, and vagueness in scientific endeavors is another example of intellectual irresponsibility. “Alternative possibilities” can be whatever the hell someone wants it to be for their own convenience.

It is an intentionally vague description, out of honest practicality, not convenience.  Look, there is a lot we don’t know about the universe.  Can’t all of us agree on that?

 
 
 
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Traces Elk
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13 November 2008 15:42
 
Immediate Suppression - 13 November 2008 08:11 PM

It is an intentionally vague description, out of honest practicality, not convenience.