Tibetan Buddhism

 
 
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ReX342
Total Posts:  3
Joined  20-06-2012
 
 
 
28 July 2012 08:14
 

The Tibetans have suffered every bit as much as the Palestinians.  Over a million of them died as a direct result of the Chinese occupation of their country.  Where are the Tibetan suicide bombers?  Where is their cult of martyrdom?  Where are the throngs of Tibetans seething with hatred, calling for the deaths of the Chinese?  They are not likely to exist.  What is the difference that makes the difference?  Religion.

It doesn’t take a mental acrobat to call Tibetan Buddhism religious and claim the difference is what kind of religious dogmas you hold (killing oneself, killing the other, etc).

Just because they use self-immolation instead of bombing, doesn´t mean they don´t commit suicide ´in defense of their faith´. It´s the return of their religious figure as a political leader that´s what causing chinese authorities to violate human rights by locking them up. After reading what Michael Parenti has to says on the issue (Friendly Fuedalism), I´ve been less and less inclined to blindly follow the anti-chinese sentiment. Though obviously we could enter a political, economic and social debate that would undercut the other argument Sam makes (that these would be universal if only we´d be reasonable).

I still call myself a buddhist*, still support students for a free tibet (at least in name) and saw the Dalai Lama speak (and was underwhelmed by his old-fashioned views on sexuality and sexism in particular).
*Mainly because of this quote

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

which as been paraphrased by new agers to signify that facts and conversation do not need to disturb the dogmatic mind.

In my native language there is a poet who claims to ´be god in the deepest (corner)´ which I found to be a good way of looking at consciousness. We could claim there´s a lot of sophistication in gnosticism and there´s no need to rely on buddhist teachings because it´s been turned into a religion-cult by the people who ´worship the buddha like he´s santa claus´*. In the beginning of christianity, it was nothing but a variety of cults and for every dogma there was an opposite dogma (even for the divinity of christ, such as socianism). Why there should be nuance in buddhism but none in christianity is beyond me. Though I readily admit I’d still rather call myself a buddhist than a christian, it’s mainly to avoid misunderstandings.
*Or cutting of flowers and letting them rot at the giant statues of buddha. This idolatry has little to do with the philosophy and I didn’t mind the Taliban blowing that UNESCO heritage up (unlike some artsy farty non-buddhists I know who cried). It was giving buddhists a bad (meaning religious) name. Although I’d rather nobody destroy anything and people be more reflexive (surely they’ve all built their own mini-shrines by now so it didn´t help).

I think the self-immolation is a form of martyrdom, similar to Jesus on the Cross (if we skip the reading where that was an accident and he was calling for a violent revolution which failed). Making it okay to suffer, because he’ll be incarnated in heaven anyway.

I consider it impolite to give a speech at a forum without posing a question, so here it is:
Does anybody have a source for the 1(.2) million people being dead as a direct result of chinese occupation?

 
 
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toombaru
Total Posts:  800
Joined  12-11-2010
 
 
 
19 August 2012 13:38
 
ReX342 - 28 July 2012 08:14 AM

The Tibetans have suffered every bit as much as the Palestinians.  Over a million of them died as a direct result of the Chinese occupation of their country.  Where are the Tibetan suicide bombers?  Where is their cult of martyrdom?  Where are the throngs of Tibetans seething with hatred, calling for the deaths of the Chinese?  They are not likely to exist.  What is the difference that makes the difference?  Religion.

It doesn’t take a mental acrobat to call Tibetan Buddhism religious and claim the difference is what kind of religious dogmas you hold (killing oneself, killing the other, etc).

Just because they use self-immolation instead of bombing, doesn´t mean they don´t commit suicide ´in defense of their faith´. It´s the return of their religious figure as a political leader that´s what causing chinese authorities to violate human rights by locking them up. After reading what Michael Parenti has to says on the issue (Friendly Fuedalism), I´ve been less and less inclined to blindly follow the anti-chinese sentiment. Though obviously we could enter a political, economic and social debate that would undercut the other argument Sam makes (that these would be universal if only we´d be reasonable).

I still call myself a buddhist*, still support students for a free tibet (at least in name) and saw the Dalai Lama speak (and was underwhelmed by his old-fashioned views on sexuality and sexism in particular).
*Mainly because of this quote

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

which as been paraphrased by new agers to signify that facts and conversation do not need to disturb the dogmatic mind.

In my native language there is a poet who claims to ´be god in the deepest (corner)´ which I found to be a good way of looking at consciousness. We could claim there´s a lot of sophistication in gnosticism and there´s no need to rely on buddhist teachings because it´s been turned into a religion-cult by the people who ´worship the buddha like he´s santa claus´*. In the beginning of christianity, it was nothing but a variety of cults and for every dogma there was an opposite dogma (even for the divinity of christ, such as socianism). Why there should be nuance in buddhism but none in christianity is beyond me. Though I readily admit I’d still rather call myself a buddhist than a christian, it’s mainly to avoid misunderstandings.
*Or cutting of flowers and letting them rot at the giant statues of buddha. This idolatry has little to do with the philosophy and I didn’t mind the Taliban blowing that UNESCO heritage up (unlike some artsy farty non-buddhists I know who cried). It was giving buddhists a bad (meaning religious) name. Although I’d rather nobody destroy anything and people be more reflexive (surely they’ve all built their own mini-shrines by now so it didn´t help).

I think the self-immolation is a form of martyrdom, similar to Jesus on the Cross (if we skip the reading where that was an accident and he was calling for a violent revolution which failed). Making it okay to suffer, because he’ll be incarnated in heaven anyway.

I consider it impolite to give a speech at a forum without posing a question, so here it is:
Does anybody have a source for the 1(.2) million people being dead as a direct result of chinese occupation?


I called my self a Buddhist for many years .
At the time Buddhism appeared to make more sense than the other belief systems that attempt to explain man’s place in the universe.
Now it is seen as merely one more attempt of the conceptual mind to answer questions that are relevant only to an imaginary self.
The phantom of personal identity wants to know its place in manifestation….....and it doesn’t have one.
Buddhism is as meaningless as Scientology.

 
 
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flaneur
Total Posts:  13
Joined  06-06-2012
 
 
 
03 January 2013 14:00
 

buddhism isn’t a belief system and doesn’t attempt to explain man’s place in the universe. tibetan buddhism is another matter.

 
 
 
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HarrisFan
Total Posts:  3
Joined  02-06-2015
 
 
 
02 June 2015 10:12
 
toombaru - 19 August 2012 01:38 PM

Now it is seen as merely one more attempt of the conceptual mind to answer questions that are relevant only to an imaginary self.
The phantom of personal identity wants to know its place in manifestation….....and it doesn’t have one.

You reject Buddhism, but you subscribe to quintessential Dzogchen concepts.

Sounds like Sam Harris.

[ Edited: 02 June 2015 10:17 by HarrisFan]
 
 
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etienne
Total Posts:  12
Joined  19-05-2015
 
 
 
07 June 2015 11:55
 

Not sure as to any claims from Tibetan Llamas and monks as to ‘enlightenment’ through their practice, but the Dalai Llama often sounds like an idiot when he speaks and the Tibetan monks maintained a position of hierarchy over very poor peasants society below them.  Like any priest class, probably their main function is that of class superiority immunity to ‘real work’ for themselves, extortion of the masses and often relatively luxurious lifestyles.  The Tibetan monks did/do all of that.

 
 
 
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HarrisFan
Total Posts:  3
Joined  02-06-2015
 
 
 
08 June 2015 16:03
 

Western scholars debunk Chinese propaganda like that.  See the book “Authenticating Tibet”.

I’m sure you know that Sam Harris recommends Dzogchen in his book “Waking Up” and podcasts.

 
 
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etienne
Total Posts:  12
Joined  19-05-2015
 
 
 
09 June 2015 09:45
 

Tibetan sand art is pretty cool, and those brass bowl gongs can be pleasing.  Chanting like a bullfrog @ 4 a.m. can really drive your neighbors crazy, though, especially if you live in an apt building.