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New Forum Guidelines Discussion Thread

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
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05 June 2016 16:01
 

I think Harris has used all of the standard magically offensive words for those who choose to be offended by them, so I don’t see this as a restriction at all.

At least I certainly hope it doesn’t become one, because that would be a misuse of the guideline/rule—“fixing” a problem that doesn’t exist and isn’t actually a problem anyway.

 
 
Shane Optima
 
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Shane Optima
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05 June 2016 16:46
 
SkepticX - 05 June 2016 04:01 PM

I think Harris has used all of the standard magically offensive words for those who choose to be offended by them, so I don’t see this as a restriction at all.

That’s what I was thinking at first—that it was mainly concerning to racial epithets and perhaps a few words like “cunt” I’m not sure I’ve ever heard out of him, but then I read “No shit (not kidding).” I can’t parse that to mean anything other than “shit” is forbidden, and that they are going to manually edit peoples’ posts to remove this word and threaten them with permabans, which is eye-rollingly dumb and smacks of either a profound technical ignorance or a nefarious desire to create more arbitrary veto power.

I’ve seen several popular UBBs that have a default-on language filter that does stuff like “fucking” to “farking”... and this filter often does *not* filter out “shit” by default. This is a direct consequence of the decline of mass media (with its centralized censorship); this is how far we’ve come as a culture.

This policy would have seemed a bit dated (and technologically ignorant) fifteen years ago. And yes, it’s very confusingly explained.

 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
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05 June 2016 16:51
 
Shane Optima - 05 June 2016 04:46 PM
SkepticX - 05 June 2016 04:01 PM

I think Harris has used all of the standard magically offensive words for those who choose to be offended by them, so I don’t see this as a restriction at all.

That’s what I was thinking at first—that it was mainly concerning to racial epithets and perhaps a few words like “cunt” I’m not sure I’ve ever heard out of him, but then I read “No shit (not kidding).” I can’t parse that to mean anything other than “shit” is forbidden, and that they are going to manually edit peoples’ posts to remove this word and threaten them with permabans, which is eye-rollingly dumb and smacks of either a profound technical ignorance or a nefarious desire to create more arbitrary veto power.

I’ve seen several popular UBBs that have a default-on language filter that does stuff like “fucking” to “farking”... and this filter often does *not* filter out “shit” by default. This is a direct consequence of the decline of mass media (with its centralized censorship); this is how far we’ve come as a culture.

This policy would have seemed a bit dated (and technologically ignorant) fifteen years ago. And yes, it’s very confusingly explained.

The meaning of any set of guidelines is in the enforcement.  I’m not at all worried.  Fuck it.

 
 
SkepticX
 
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05 June 2016 16:53
 
Dennis Campbell - 05 June 2016 04:51 PM

The meaning of any set of guidelines is in the enforcement.  I’m not at all worried.  Fuck it.


I’m right there with ya, man.

I haven’t seen any reason to be worried about this since ‘04.

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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05 June 2016 16:58
 
SkepticX - 05 June 2016 04:53 PM
Dennis Campbell - 05 June 2016 04:51 PM

The meaning of any set of guidelines is in the enforcement.  I’m not at all worried.  Fuck it.


I’m right there with ya, man.

I haven’t seen any reason to be worried about this since ‘04.

Not so sure about you.  You seem to have signs of being a free thinker!  Damn!

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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05 June 2016 21:36
 

Frankly, unless you’re a gynocologist or a rapper, I don’t see a problem. Claims of suffocation are exaggerated.

 
MARTIN_UK
 
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06 June 2016 00:33
 
Nhoj Morley - 05 June 2016 09:36 PM

Frankly, unless you’re a gynocologist or a rapper, I don’t see a problem. Claims of suffocation are exaggerated.

So Dr Dre could be in real trouble on both counts then…  grin

 
SkepticX
 
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06 June 2016 05:08
 
Dennis Campbell - 05 June 2016 04:58 PM
SkepticX - 05 June 2016 04:53 PM
Dennis Campbell - 05 June 2016 04:51 PM

The meaning of any set of guidelines is in the enforcement.  I’m not at all worried.  Fuck it.

I’m right there with ya, man.

I haven’t seen any reason to be worried about this since ‘04.

Not so sure about you.  You seem to have signs of being a free thinker!  Damn!


Yeah ... I need to work on that if I want to ever really play well with the other children here in the Deep Red.

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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06 June 2016 10:42
 
SkepticX - 06 June 2016 05:08 AM

Yeah ... I need to work on that if I want to ever really play well with the other children here in the Deep Red.

Maybe the other children need to learn to play well with you.

I’m cool with the guidelines since they closely match the unwritten guidelines we have had for a long time and give a reference point when someone is over-doing it, i.e. don’t be an asshole and make us enforce the rules.

 
MARTIN_UK
 
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MARTIN_UK
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06 June 2016 12:28
 
Skipshot - 06 June 2016 10:42 AM
SkepticX - 06 June 2016 05:08 AM

Yeah ... I need to work on that if I want to ever really play well with the other children here in the Deep Red.

Maybe the other children need to learn to play well with you.

I’m cool with the guidelines since they closely match the unwritten guidelines we have had for a long time and give a reference point when someone is over-doing it, i.e. don’t be an asshole and make us enforce the rules.

Yes they do Skip… you’re obviously getting the gist of it.  wink

[ Edited: 06 June 2016 23:27 by MARTIN_UK]
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
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06 June 2016 17:41
 
Skipshot - 06 June 2016 10:42 AM

I’m cool with the guidelines since they closely match the unwritten guidelines we have had for a long time and give a reference point when someone is over-doing it

agreed.

 
Shane Optima
 
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Shane Optima
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06 June 2016 21:20
 
Skipshot - 06 June 2016 10:42 AM

I’m cool with the guidelines since they closely match the unwritten guidelines we have had for a long time and give a reference point when someone is over-doing it, i.e. don’t be an asshole and make us enforce the rules.

I appear to be one of a few people who do NOT get it.  Nhoj has been repeatedly implying that rule #3 will be applied without regard to context (which is what the rule itself says, fairly clearly), yet quite a few old-timers are acting like this is not going to be super strict or word-specific and will be entirely contextual.

 
Skipshot
 
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06 June 2016 22:09
 
Shane Optima - 06 June 2016 09:20 PM

I appear to be one of a few people who do NOT get it.  Nhoj has been repeatedly implying that rule #3 will be applied without regard to context (which is what the rule itself says, fairly clearly), yet quite a few old-timers are acting like this is not going to be super strict or word-specific and will be entirely contextual.

Speaking only for myself, yes, you do not get it, entirely.  You have attracted Nhoj’s attention, and mine, for ad hominem posts.  We are welcome to attack ideas all day long, but leave it at that.

Of course, there will be some inside jokes and ribbing between senior members which we don’t expect you to understand (EN gets heat from some for being Texan which is a worse crime than being Christian and a lawyer; I have hassled Martin for being English and a cannibal, Dennis for senility, BRF for being a pot smoking, Miller beer drinking, foreigner marrying, soccer fan refugee from Nebraska, the low-hanging fruit of our gay members for being gay and Canadians for being Canadian, and jb8989 gets and gives crap for being an overly educated trust fund kid with a hot wife and houses all over the country but won’t invite us to, and I get razzed for being a drunk white liberal living in the consistently Top 5 rated USA crime-infested city of Oakland, CA), but context is paramount.  We welcome new members with open arms and mostly it is up to them if they want to stay, but occasionally dill weeds who shoot their mouths off too soon are given warnings, and a select few have been shown the door.

Argue with the admins’ decisions at your peril since they have a rather high bar of tolerance, and if they wag a finger at you then you may consider it being wagged from a large portion of the members.

[ Edited: 07 June 2016 01:15 by Skipshot]
 
Shane Optima
 
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Shane Optima
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06 June 2016 22:45
 
Skipshot - 06 June 2016 10:09 PM

Argue with the admins’ decisions at your peril since they have a rather high bar of tolerance, and if they wag a finger at you then you may consider it being wagged from a large portion of the members.

Without knowing much of the history of this place, I am sure that suspicions about passionate, talkative noobs are often well-founded. If someone shows up and a week later is making suggestions for forum improvement—yes, *who the fuck are you*, I get that.

Now, I’m not entirely sure how that implies or necessitates an aura of coy mystery when questions are asked. Unless I’m being tested. Which is fine, too. Inefficient, but fine.

I haven’t received any finger wags to my knowledge; just some playful barbs, understandable wariness, and less understandable mysteriousness.

Skipshot - 06 June 2016 10:09 PM

You have attracted Nhoj’s attention, and mine, for ad hominem posts.  We are welcome to attack ideas all day long, but leave it at that.

That term is thrown around a bit too loosely. If someone says something nonsensical or mis-characterizes something I’ve said, they will be called on it. Sharpness[1] of the retort can be adjusted depending on the crowd’s temperature, but sharpness has nothing to do with whether or not something is an ad hominem. Not even blatant insults are ad hominems, unless they are being used as part of a pseudo-logical argument against an idea.

Incidentally, The Boss did the same thing not too long ago and he was also attacked for supposedly using ad hominems. I mention this not as a defense or to conflate the old timers with Sam, but… I dunno, it somehow seems relevant.


Shane

1.  I think the sharpest I’ve been so far was in a reply to EN in my first thread after he tried to be clever by repeatedly refusing to respond to the second part of a question, and then implied I was strawmanning him when I summarized the totality of his thoughts on the matter in light of that omission.  Pretty sure we’re cool now, though.  It’s a decent crowd you have here. Refreshing. Should have joined a long time ago.

[ Edited: 06 June 2016 22:49 by Shane Optima]
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
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07 June 2016 00:31
 
Shane Optima - 06 June 2016 10:45 PM

I think the sharpest I’ve been so far was in a reply to EN in my first thread after he tried to be clever by repeatedly refusing to respond to the second part of a question, and then implied I was strawmanning him when I summarized the totality of his thoughts on the matter in light of that omission.

More likely he’s tired of writing the same thing over and over as the forum chew toy.  He states his opinion on a subject and unless a compelling argument is given in response, don’t expect a reply.  I do the same.  Minds are rarely changed here, but a meeting of minds is common.  We work more toward understanding than beating someone up for holding a different viewpoint.

 
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