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New Forum Guidelines Discussion Thread

 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  15841
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
07 June 2016 00:41
 
Skipshot - 07 June 2016 12:31 AM
Shane Optima - 06 June 2016 10:45 PM

I think the sharpest I’ve been so far was in a reply to EN in my first thread after he tried to be clever by repeatedly refusing to respond to the second part of a question, and then implied I was strawmanning him when I summarized the totality of his thoughts on the matter in light of that omission.

More likely he’s tired of writing the same thing over and over as the forum chew toy.  He states his opinion on a subject and unless a compelling argument is given in response, don’t expect a reply.  I do the same.  Minds are rarely changed here, but a meeting of minds is common.  We work more toward understanding than beating someone up for holding a different viewpoint.

Only because after 9 years of beating each other up we are old and tired…

 
 
Dennis Campbell
 
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Dennis Campbell
Total Posts:  19785
Joined  20-07-2007
 
 
 
07 June 2016 05:46
 

Only because after 9 years of beating each other up we are old and tired…

Speak for yourself!  Now, who’re you again!?

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
Total Posts:  2324
Joined  26-03-2013
 
 
 
09 June 2016 04:55
 

Inside the door you’ll find nobody there
Just the dirt on the floor and the dust in the air
The party at one point was someplace to be
Now enter the joint and there’s nothing to see

Whatever is fair and whatever profane
When searching the air for a God is insane
The loudest ones weeping silence the rest
Those of us keeping cards close to the vest

Rules should be clear for those willing to fight
Those wanting to steer always want to be right
When one’s overly tender or actively wild
What matter is gender when one acts like a child?

Spending the day within tight little cliques
Leaves nowhere to play for the oddballs and freaks
To couch every word is to feign being kind
And rather absurd to those not quite so blind

Escaping from jail as we scoff at the crown
Sheeting the sail as we blow the man down
Read me a sonnet and tell me you know
The bee in your bonnet has somewhere to go

Through all the hassle and all the discord
A knot in the tassel on the sheath of your sword
There are no more whys and yet only because
The history lies where the party once was.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
Total Posts:  5498
Joined  22-02-2005
 
 
 
10 June 2016 11:13
 

In a further effort of transparency, I tried to make a Top Ten List of complaints heard here at the forum that were considered in the update. Unfortunately, there aren’t ten I can think of. These are little pin pricks over glacial periods of time but they are The Feedback. Some of those years I was only Vice-Batman.


#1: Non-support for the BM. And that’s counting Dennis only once.

#2: Support for the BM.

#3: Treatment of female posters.

#4: The Mabus.

#5: Our silly software. 

#6: Andrew and or me. Never Mart.

#7: A specific poster by name.

#8: Limits on expression.

 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
Total Posts:  2324
Joined  26-03-2013
 
 
 
10 June 2016 13:35
 

What if you signed up at this forum with no intention of hitting from the ladies tee?  What if you’re not exactly thrilled about the team you’re on?  What if you’re tired of watching women recoil at the word feminism then disappear faster than Nigerian school girls?  What if all your teammates fucking hate you?

I don’t think Jackie Robinson expected every pitch to arrive exclusively to him underhanded. 

Women tend to share a lot of personal details about themselves.  That’s fine.  It’s not everyone’s cup of tea and yet it never seems expected of men.  When you don’t reveal those personal details, apparently, others will create them for you.  And not in a favourable way.  That leaves two uncomfortable options.  Ignore it and bank on the ability of intelligent patrons to decide for themselves or confront the nonsense and straighten it out by revealing the personal details you were wary of sharing in the first place.  It’s a hell of a position.  You can’t defend yourself against that.  It’s a trap.  You become dehumanized to those unable to separate the post from the poster.  It often means fighting with both hands tied behind your back. 

Thinking of women like damsels in distress may not be the most appropriate weapon against misogyny.

I am fully prepared to take on the wankie boys.  As long as the same rules apply to the wankie girls.

 
 
Nhoj Morley
 
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Nhoj Morley
Total Posts:  5498
Joined  22-02-2005
 
 
 
11 June 2016 07:25
 
LadyJane - 10 June 2016 01:35 PM

Thinking of women like damsels in distress may not be the most appropriate weapon against misogyny.


Good points all. Would it look better as rule #4? Maybe yer right about the headline.

It’s a deep rabbit hole of sticky issues. I don’t want anyone who spoke up about it labeled a damsel or presumed in distress. Except me, that’s okay. It’s the boys who are in distress. Soon, anyway.

But these are the normal day to day ravings of a typical poster and not a forum mission statement.

These terms were chosen carefully if for naught. “Mixed Company” should have congered not just women but Icelanders and Presbyterians and your neighbors and your boss and new people you know nothing about.

 
SkepticX
 
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SkepticX
Total Posts:  14436
Joined  24-12-2004
 
 
 
11 June 2016 08:52
 
LadyJane - 10 June 2016 01:35 PM

Thinking of women like damsels in distress may not be the most appropriate weapon against misogyny.


Nice!

But I have to say I’m surprised to hear that from you, LadyJane ...

Since you’re such a delicate little flower.

Heh.

In all seriousness though, I was thinking of “mixed” company running the gamut (as much about world views as gender and all that kinda shite). Doesn’t really have any bearing on your point, but that’s what I was thinking.

 
 
nonverbal
 
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nonverbal
Total Posts:  840
Joined  31-10-2015
 
 
 
11 June 2016 13:00
 
LadyJane - 09 June 2016 04:55 AM

Inside the door you’ll find nobody there
Just the dirt on the floor and the dust in the air
The party at one point was someplace to be
Now enter the joint and there’s nothing to see

Whatever is fair and whatever profane
When searching the air for a God is insane
The loudest ones weeping silence the rest
Those of us keeping cards close to the vest

Rules should be clear for those willing to fight
Those wanting to steer always want to be right
When one’s overly tender or actively wild
What matter is gender when one acts like a child?

Spending the day within tight little cliques
Leaves nowhere to play for the oddballs and freaks
To couch every word is to feign being kind
And rather absurd to those not quite so blind

Escaping from jail as we scoff at the crown
Sheeting the sail as we blow the man down
Read me a sonnet and tell me you know
The bee in your bonnet has somewhere to go

Through all the hassle and all the discord
A knot in the tassel on the sheath of your sword
There are no more whys and yet only because
The history lies where the party once was.

Yes, things are slow here lately. Slower than “slow,” in fact. My guess is that valid conversation will eventually return, since it always seems to. I’m an optimist, of course. EN—are you on vacation or something?

 
 
LadyJane
 
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LadyJane
Total Posts:  2324
Joined  26-03-2013
 
 
 
11 June 2016 15:33
 
SkepticX - 11 June 2016 08:52 AM
LadyJane - 10 June 2016 01:35 PM

Thinking of women like damsels in distress may not be the most appropriate weapon against misogyny.


Nice!

But I have to say I’m surprised to hear that from you, LadyJane ...

Since you’re such a delicate little flower.

Heh.

Ha ha, feel free to hold the door open for me when it’s time to kick some ass!

 
 
Skipshot
 
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Skipshot
Total Posts:  8614
Joined  20-10-2006
 
 
 
11 June 2016 22:03
 

Must. . . resist. . . wise crack. . .

Deep breath. . .

One more. . .

. . .

Find my serene place. . .

. . .

Ohhhhhhh. . . kayyyyyy. . .

I’m cool now.

 
KathleenBrugger
 
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KathleenBrugger
Total Posts:  1511
Joined  01-07-2013
 
 
 
12 June 2016 06:48
 
LadyJane - 10 June 2016 01:35 PM

What if you signed up at this forum with no intention of hitting from the ladies tee?  What if you’re not exactly thrilled about the team you’re on?  What if you’re tired of watching women recoil at the word feminism then disappear faster than Nigerian school girls?  What if all your teammates fucking hate you?

I don’t think Jackie Robinson expected every pitch to arrive exclusively to him underhanded. 

Women tend to share a lot of personal details about themselves.  That’s fine.  It’s not everyone’s cup of tea and yet it never seems expected of men.  When you don’t reveal those personal details, apparently, others will create them for you.  And not in a favourable way.  That leaves two uncomfortable options.  Ignore it and bank on the ability of intelligent patrons to decide for themselves or confront the nonsense and straighten it out by revealing the personal details you were wary of sharing in the first place.  It’s a hell of a position.  You can’t defend yourself against that.  It’s a trap.  You become dehumanized to those unable to separate the post from the poster.  It often means fighting with both hands tied behind your back. 

Thinking of women like damsels in distress may not be the most appropriate weapon against misogyny.

I am fully prepared to take on the wankie boys.  As long as the same rules apply to the wankie girls.

I’m with her—oh no that’s not what I meant to say. What I mean is I feel the same way. I didn’t come here with the intention of playing like a girl. I’ve hated the idea of that since I was a pre-teen. But I don’t think a dislike of crudeness equals a ‘damsel in distress’ position. I notice there is at least one man here (jdmd) who dislikes the crudeness also.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
Total Posts:  5293
Joined  25-08-2009
 
 
 
12 June 2016 08:13
 
KathleenBrugger - 12 June 2016 06:48 AM

But I don’t think a dislike of crudeness equals a ‘damsel in distress’ position. I notice there is at least one man here (jdmd) who dislikes the crudeness also.

The point isn’t that profanity (crudeness) shouldn’t exist, but rather it shouldn’t be used in this venue.

The quest of many individuals at this forum to discern the allowable profanity, is reminiscent of children testing parents and teachers to see what they can get away with.
Adults know what is acceptable language in designated venues.  You don’t curse in court; profanity is not the language of government; It is not the language of “Free Inquiry” magazine; you don’t pepper high school and college lectures with profanity; and its not used when addressing patients (even if some of my patients do respond that way.)

 

 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  15841
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
12 June 2016 10:41
 
jdrnd - 12 June 2016 08:13 AM
KathleenBrugger - 12 June 2016 06:48 AM

But I don’t think a dislike of crudeness equals a ‘damsel in distress’ position. I notice there is at least one man here (jdmd) who dislikes the crudeness also.

The point isn’t that profanity (crudeness) shouldn’t exist, but rather it shouldn’t be used in this venue.

The quest of many individuals at this forum to discern the allowable profanity, is reminiscent of children testing parents and teachers to see what they can get away with.
Adults know what is acceptable language in designated venues.  You don’t curse in court; profanity is not the language of government; It is not the language of “Free Inquiry” magazine; you don’t pepper high school and college lectures with profanity; and its not used when addressing patients (even if some of my patients do respond that way.)

 

No it’s different, we are not children and we don’t have to accept your opinion of the right and wrong to speak. The fact that most posters here want to know what the allowable profanity is should be a huge clue to you. You are entitled to your opinion and you can choose not to read or respond to posters who use profanity but don’t act like that makes you somehow fucking superior to everyone else.

 
 
jdrnd
 
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jdrnd
Total Posts:  5293
Joined  25-08-2009
 
 
 
12 June 2016 12:47
 
GAD - 12 June 2016 10:41 AM

No it’s different, we are not children and we don’t have to accept your opinion of the right and wrong to speak.


Neither of us have to agree with each others opinion.

There are 2 issues.
1. Whether or not profanity reflects negatively on the poster

2. The right to use profanity.

Gad,
I am not opposed to you or anybody else using profanity.
Its a free country; as American I agree with the principle of free speech.
WE are in agreement about free speech and the right to use profanity without the government arresting us for saying it.
But that doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for the things we say.

Profanity reflects poorly on the person who uses it. It does not positively contribute to discussion.  I know you don’t see it that way.  I doubt there is anything I could say that would convince you otherwise.  But that’s how I and many others see it.

The Sam Harris forum is a private web site. The owner can make the rules as he see’s fit. You need to convince him that profanity will not negatively reflect on him, and that you and others would like his permission to use profanity when ever you want at this forum. 
In public, at a bar, while playing sports, in a card game, when it comes to profanity, knock yourself out.

Jeff

 
GAD
 
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GAD
Total Posts:  15841
Joined  15-02-2008
 
 
 
12 June 2016 13:05
 
jdrnd - 12 June 2016 12:47 PM
GAD - 12 June 2016 10:41 AM

No it’s different, we are not children and we don’t have to accept your opinion of the right and wrong to speak.


Neither of us have to agree with each others opinion.

There are 2 issues.
1. Whether or not profanity reflects negatively on the poster

2. The right to use profanity.

Gad,
I am not opposed to you or anybody else using profanity.
Its a free country; as American I agree with the principle of free speech.
WE are in agreement about free speech and the right to use profanity without the government arresting us for saying it.
But that doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for the things we say.

Profanity reflects poorly on the person who uses it. It does not positively contribute to discussion.  I know you don’t see it that way.  I doubt there is anything I could say that would convince you otherwise.  But that’s how I and many others see it.

Opinion and projection.

The Sam Harris forum is a private web site. The owner can make the rules as he see’s fit. You need to convince him that profanity will not negatively reflect on him, and that you and others would like his permission to use profanity when ever you want at this forum. 
In public, at a bar, while playing sports, in a card game, when it comes to profanity, knock yourself out.

Sam Harris doesn’t play here and I doubt he really gives a shit. Did Sam personally make a list of rules and post them here? Not that I have seen. Now you are just projecting your own opinions with a Sam Harris dummy sitting on your lap. All you need now is to make all his books holy and beyond and banned from any criticism. 

 

 
 
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