A Word to Mr. Harris and those who hold similar views:

 
 
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VicM
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17 July 2007 12:24
 

Psalm 14:1

 
 
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Aaron
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17 July 2007 14:04
 

[quote author=“VicM”]Psalm 14:1

Why don’t you just type the whole passage - it would not be any less fly-by-night:

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Are you trying to make some sort of logical argument by actually quoting scripture? You do know that won’t work at all here, right?

 
 
hampsteadpete
 
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hampsteadpete
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17 July 2007 16:09
 

VicM, I guess you are but another screwy theist who clings to the arrogant idea that anyone who doesn’t fall on their knees to your invisible friend must be ignorant of the benefits of doing so.  What an ass!

You should try actually reading the book you are trying to quote.  If you did, you might run across Matthew 5:22.  I’ll save you the trouble.  It says: “But whomsoever shall say ‘Thou fool’ shall be in danger of hell fire.”

Do you still feel superior?  Tell you what, see if you can come up with ONE credible, believable, repeatable reason for believing in god that doesn’t come from the bible.  If you do, you will have surpassed all of the apologists since Justin Martyr, who came up with my personal favorite.  (If you don’t know, he explained away all of the previous mystery gods who shared most of christ’s attributes by simply saying “the devil knew christ was coming and counterfeited all the rest.”  I love it!  He could have worked in the Bush administration.

 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 08:20
 

One thing I have learned about those who deny the existence of God is that they are usually people who are involved in gross immorality (ie pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, bestiallity, etc.) and they don’t like the fact that there is One to whom they will answer to. That is the bottom line. You love your sin and you’re willing to do anything to pursue it - even if it means suspending all mental properties.

Reason has nothing to do with what you people are doing. Reason, just like genuine science, always pionts to God. But, as I stated above, to pursue your sin, you’re willing to suspend all mental capability.

Thus, God is right in His assessment when He says that you are fools.

 
 
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Aaron
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18 July 2007 08:33
 

[quote author=“VicM”]One thing I have learned about those who deny the existence of God is that they are usually people who are involved in gross immorality (ie pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, bestiallity, etc.) and they don’t like the fact that there is One to whom they will answer to. That is the bottom line. You love your sin and you’re willing to do anything to pursue it - even if it means suspending all mental properties.

Reason has nothing to do with what you people are doing. Reason, just like genuine science, always pionts to God. But, as I stated above, to pursue your sin, you’re willing to suspend all mental capability.

Thus, God is right in His assessment when He says that you are fools.

Vic, morality derives from humanity, not god. What you mean is that you need god to not be a sinner. God’s keeping tabs on you, ain’t he?  Without your delusion of a skymaster, you’d be a bad bad boy and would probably be a (*gasp*) homosexual!  Don’t speak for others, about whom you know nothing but what your vapid religion pounds into your head.

But you are probably so entrenched, so indoctrinated, and probably beyond all hope. You’d be happier with other believers on believer boards, where you can stroke each other’s fairy tale fantasies and judge others until you blow your load of divine nectar. Oh YES!!

 
 
fletch_F_Fletch
 
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fletch_F_Fletch
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18 July 2007 08:40
 

I have a close friend, his name is Chuck, who became an athiest after reading Sam Harris’ book.  Nevertheless, once he became an atheist he immediately stoped liking females but rather turned his eyes to the four legged creatures who walk this earth, in short he fell in love with a cow.  Later that year he married that cow and they are still together to this day.  Personally I don’t think it will last. 

VicM:

One thing I have learned about those who deny the existence of God is that they are usually people who are involved in gross immorality (ie pedophilia, homosexuality, adultery, bestiallity

I see you mentioned bestiallity.  Considering you know atheists who like to have intimate relations with animals outside the primate species I was wondering if you ever met Chuck.  I think we all would like to hear some stories of your experience in learning about the desire for atheists get down and dirty with a donky.

 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 08:47
 

happyheathen,

You are a fool of the highest order if you believe that morality is derived from humanity. That statem just shows the level of your ignorance.

Jefe,

I have news for you; the catholic church is NOT Christian, though they claim to be. Their deeds throughout their history speak for themselves.

 
 
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Aaron
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18 July 2007 08:58
 

[quote author=“VicM”]happyheathen,

You are a fool of the highest order if you believe that morality is derived from humanity. That statem just shows the level of your ignorance.

Vic, you sure are superior to us, aren’t you, speaking from a pulpit of your own creation, and you are deluded - a true cult member.

I’m a delightfully happy person; your misnomer is incorrect.  Now, please 1) say something of substance that would convince me that god exists. 2) Explain how it is that I can be a moral person (and I assure you my actions speak for themselves) without believing in god while it seems that your belief in god has resulted in a finger-pointing judgemental…well….bitch

As one of god’s bitches, can you say anything to convince me of your belief in his almighty existence, or will it all be circular, self-referential tripe like the rest of them? 

It’s your call. I give you this chance only. Otherwise, you aren’t worth the time of day.

Cheers.

[ Edited: 18 July 2007 13:46 by ]
 
 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 09:20
 

Jefe,

A Christian is one who believes God’s word concerning His Son, embraces Him as such, and lives in obedience to His commands. Short and simple.

happyheathen,

Nothing I say to you will convince you to believe in God. But I do have a couple of questions for you? Do you believe that sex outside of marriage is okay? Do you believe that homosexuality is okay?

 
 
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Aaron
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18 July 2007 09:29
 

[quote author=“VicM”]
But I do have a couple of questions for you? Do you believe that sex outside of marriage is okay? Do you believe that homosexuality is okay?

Is homosexuality ok? You bet it is! As is any expression of love and lust between consenting adults.

Sex before marriage is recommended. Outside sex during marriage - well, I’m all for monogamy, but I don’t judge folks who decide otherwise if they have a healthy relationship, which many do.

Nothing I say to you will convince you to believe in God.

What a cop-out. Earlier you said:

Reason, just like genuine science, always pionts to God

.
Surely, then, you have a reason for me to believe?  No? Oh, well.

 
 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 11:00
 

Jefe,

All of His commands are important. Belief and absolute obedience is what makes a Christian. Those who pick and choose what they want to believe or obey are only fooling themselves. God is very clear on this point. It’s all or nothing.

happyheathen,

You are, by your own admission, not a moral individual if you don’t see anything wrong with extra-marital sex or homosexuality.

And the reason you won’t believe anything I say is because reason is beyond your grasp, since you have, like most people on this site, disconnected yourselves from the Source of reason, namely, God.

 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 11:45
 

Nice try. But your spin won’t work with me. Christians follow Jesus’ teachings, not the Torah. Those commands were given to the new nation established by God - Israel.

The term, “christian”, is just that - one who follows Christ.

 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 13:02
 

Not quite. The OT speaks volumes about Jesus’ coming. While we are no longer under the Law, we do find much wisdom useful for today. Truths that transcend time, which, when heeded, bring blessing in one’s life.

It’s a bit more complicated than this. But, in a nutshell, the OT looks forward to the NT era and beyond.

 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 13:12
 

You’re not understanding. If you discard the OT (and you’re free to do so) you will have a limited understanding of the NT.

 
 
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VicM
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18 July 2007 13:17
 

Where are you going with the issue of slavery? I don’t get your point. Please elaborate.

 
 
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Aaron
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18 July 2007 13:45
 

[quote author=“VicM”]

happyheathen,

You are, by your own admission, not a moral individual if you don’t see anything wrong with extra-marital sex or homosexuality.

And the reason you won’t believe anything I say is because reason is beyond your grasp, since you have, like most people on this site, disconnected yourselves from the Source of reason, namely, God.

Vic, you’ll refer to me by the name I chose, please.

I am not “by my own admission” an immoral individual. I am a homosexual, something I’m sure you’ll argue is a choice, so please spare us all.

Reason is beyond my grasp? And yet you can’t provide me with one reason why I should believe anything you say is true?

I’ll paraphrase a writer I admire here -

Your statements consist, like most professions of blind faith, in merely assuming that which still has to be proved. Your assertions are stated as if all the logical work has already been done. Scientists have expressions for hypotheses that are utterly useless even for learning from mistakes. They refer to them as being “not even wrong.” Your discourse is of this type.

Thank you, Mr. Hitchens. Learn, Mr. Vic.