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Islamists and our OTHER enemy :

 
arildno
 
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arildno
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29 December 2008 05:37
 

Well, as for you, who don’t know the difference between the ethnic term “tribes”, and the religious term “sects”, have already betrayed such a level of ignorance and misconception that you are entirely dismissable.

You simply expressed your opinion that since the fundamentalists have a more thorough argument, according to you of course, we ought to magically assume that ALL threads of Islam, irregardless of their cultural reac

To resolve that argument turn to the Quran and the received hadith tradition for independent study.
Before you show that you have done so, you don’t have anything worthwhile to contribute with.

 
EN
 
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EN
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29 December 2008 07:12
 
tavishhill2003 - 29 December 2008 10:14 AM

Haven’t you ever wondered why we don’t have 1.2 billion ppl attacking us daily?

Perhaps because most of them are powerless to do so. Perhaps because the smarter and wealthier ones realize that an all-out-war with the West would mean the annihilation of Islam and their own societies/families. Perhaps because most of the ones who are in close enough proximity to us to attack us are distinct minorities and are just biding time until the right moment. And perhaps because many of them are non-violent and just want to live and let live. There are many possible reasons why 1.2 billion Muslims don’t attack us daily.

But I suspect that if I decided to move to a Muslim country, any Muslim country, and organize a Christian congregation there, that I would experience the peaceful nature of this religion firsthand. Muslims can move to the US, organize congregations and build mosques, and have the same legal and constitutional protections that Christians and Jews have. Same for European and other Western countries. Right here in the heart of Texas, the buckle of the Bible belt, there are several mosques within an hour’s drive of my home, and I hear no reports of violence against the worshipers there. The reverse is simply not true. Can you name me a Muslim majority country where I could go, live, and peacefully organize and practice my faith?

 
bigredfutbol
 
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bigredfutbol
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29 December 2008 07:14
 
Bruce Burleson - 29 December 2008 12:12 PM
tavishhill2003 - 29 December 2008 10:14 AM

Haven’t you ever wondered why we don’t have 1.2 billion ppl attacking us daily?

Perhaps because most of them are powerless to do so. Perhaps because the smarter and wealthier ones realize that an all-out-war with the West would mean the annihilation of Islam and their own societies/families. Perhaps because most of the ones who are in close enough proximity to us to attack us are distinct minorities and are just biding time until the right moment. And perhaps because many of them are non-violent and just want to live and let live. There are many possible reasons why 1.2 billion Muslims don’t attack us daily.

But I suspect that if I decided to move to a Muslim country, any Muslim country, and organize a Christian congregation there, that I would experience the peaceful nature of this religion firsthand. Muslims can move to the US, organize congregations and build mosques, and have the same legal and constitutional protections that Christians and Jews have. Same for European and other Western countries. Right here in the heart of Texas, the buckle of the Bible belt, there are several mosques within an hour’s drive of my home, and I hear no reports of violence against the worshipers there. The reverse is simply not true. Can you name me a Muslim majority country where I could go, live, and peacefully organize and practice my faith?

Turkey, Albania, Kosovo.  A few others.  But in general, you are not incorrect—the Muslim world all too rarely practices the tolerance we in the West take for granted.

 
 
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29 December 2008 08:17
 
bigredfutbol - 29 December 2008 12:14 PM

Turkey, Albania, Kosovo.  A few others.  But in general, you are not incorrect—the Muslim world all too rarely practices the tolerance we in the West take for granted.

A quick google of persecution of Christians in these countries reveals that it is certainly more difficult to be a Christian there than it is to be a Muslim here. Even with Turkey’s history of attempting to be a secular nation, threats against Christians are pretty common.

With Kosovo, it may just be a matter of getting back at so-called Christian Serbs, however. If I were going to pick a Muslim nation to live in, Kosovo would be high on the list, since they generally like Americans.

 
bigredfutbol
 
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bigredfutbol
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29 December 2008 10:03
 
Bruce Burleson - 29 December 2008 01:17 PM
bigredfutbol - 29 December 2008 12:14 PM

Turkey, Albania, Kosovo.  A few others.  But in general, you are not incorrect—the Muslim world all too rarely practices the tolerance we in the West take for granted.

A quick google of persecution of Christians in these countries reveals that it is certainly more difficult to be a Christian there than it is to be a Muslim here. Even with Turkey’s history of attempting to be a secular nation, threats against Christians are pretty common.

With Kosovo, it may just be a matter of getting back at so-called Christian Serbs, however. If I were going to pick a Muslim nation to live in, Kosovo would be high on the list, since they generally like Americans.

Agree that Turkey’s much-vaunted secularism has its limits; it would be much harder to start a church in many areas of the country than those mosques in Texas you speak of, I am sure.  However, I would imagine it wouldn’t be very hard to live as a Protestant Christian in Istanbul.

As for Kosovo—you’re most certainly seeing data on violence between ethnic Albanians and Serbs, not on religious persecution.  Most Kosovars are about as religious as I am, for what it’s worth.

As for Albania proper…well, some 30% of Albanians are Christian to start with, and the Muslim majority is largely secular to boot, so I can’t imagine what sort of “persecution” of Christians goes on there.

That said—again, your point about the lack of secularism and tolerance in many Muslim countries is well-taken.

 
 
tavishhill2003
 
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tavishhill2003
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29 December 2008 12:47
 
arildno - 29 December 2008 10:37 AM

Well, as for you, who don’t know the difference between the ethnic term “tribes”, and the religious term “sects”, have already betrayed such a level of ignorance and misconception that you are entirely dismissable.

You simply expressed your opinion that since the fundamentalists have a more thorough argument, according to you of course, we ought to magically assume that ALL threads of Islam, irregardless of their cultural reac

To resolve that argument turn to the Quran and the received hadith tradition for independent study.
Before you show that you have done so, you don’t have anything worthwhile to contribute with.

Wha?  I know what a sect is and I know what a tribe is.  The groups you are talking abut are both sects and tribes.  And youaren’t attempting to counter my points…as usual.  I am well aware of the sorts of things that are in the Talmud, Quaran, NT, etc.  You need to READ my arguments befoe you try to “resolve” them.  You are avoiding that because you are wrong and I’m not letting you wiggle out of your own ignorance. 

Again, your caricature of Islam as a body of thought that requires the us/them mentality you have ascribed to it isn’t honest.  It does’t require that.  You are confusing what is said within the Quaran with what is the modern mainstream religion of Islam, which are, as is always the case with religions today, completely different and cherry picked.  You are simply trying to find justification for your attempts to conflate generic muslims with militant fringes of Islamists and/or terrorism.

 
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