Sam Harris speaks with Jonah Goldberg about the state of American conservatism and the Trump presidency. They discuss the politicization of federal institutions, the erosion of legal norms, the schism between Never Trump conservatives and the nationalist right, infighting over figures like Nick Fuentes, J.D. Vance's political future, a theory of mind for Tucker Carlson, the prospects for regime change in Iran, and other topics.

Jonah Goldberg is the co-founder and Editor-in-Chief of The Dispatch. A Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, Goldberg is also a Los Angeles Times columnist, CNN contributor, and three-time bestselling author.

Website: TheDispatch.com

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