In this conversation, Sam speaks with Joan Tollifson about the simple freedom available to us—and the subtle ways in which many of us attempt to label or grasp at it. She and Sam discuss the question of enlightenment, the pitfalls of both conventional and non-dual mindfulness paths, and Joan’s experience of “being this boundless, aware presence.”

Joan Tollifson’s approach is open, direct, explorative and focused on the immediacy of what is. Her background includes Zen, Advaita, nontraditional meditative inquiry, and radical nonduality. She holds meetings, and is the author of five books including Nothing to Grasp and Death: The End of Self-Improvement. Her website is www.joan tollifson.com