In this conversation, Sam and Stephan Bodian discuss the direct approach to self-realization—a path of inquiry that draws from nondual wisdom traditions of Zen, Dzogchen-Mahamudra, and Advaita Vedanta, and bypasses elaborate belief systems or self-improvement techniques.

They also discuss Stephan’s experience learning and teaching Zen meditation, becoming a monk, Stephan’s experience of awakening and integration thereafter, sudden vs. gradual awakening, common misunderstandings about the direct path, and the connection between meditation and ethics as it relates to student-teacher relationships.

Stephan Bodian is an author, meditation teacher, and psychotherapist. He spent many years practicing with great masters in the nondual wisdom traditions of Zen, Dzogchen-Mahamudra, and Advaita Vedanta. Since 2007 he has led the School for Awakening, an annual, months-long intensive program in spiritual transformation. His books include Wake Up Now, Beyond Mindfulness, and Meditation for Dummies.